Hand in Hand Chord and scale progressions.

[Elliottman]

My friend had just bought an electric guitar and really wants to start learning the basic scales and stuff. Ive never managed to get into the elecrtic and ive always been wayyy to lazy to learn scales (i know, i know).

I dont really know how this works, but is there like a 3 or 4 chord progression i could do, and a scale - with impro, that go well together? Just so we can have some fun learning together, just makes things a little more interesting?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

p.s hope it makes sense.

[dmbguitar718]

c - g - am - f

c major scale, c d e f g a b c.

[Elliottman]

thanks man, i know its simple stuff, but you gotta start somewhere!

any other suggestions?

[taparoo]

Well, for starters you should learn some basic chord theory if you want to improvise effectively. There are many, many sites on the net - just google "chord theory", "music theory", or "improvisation", etc. and you should uncover loads of stuff that should help you. A great site I've used is http://www.looknohands.com, a great reference for chords and scales. Another GREAT site I've used, has been very helpful to me, is jazzguitar.be. Those sites should point you in the right direction. And remember to have fun, improvisation can be a bit tough at first, but once you get the hang of it it'll open up a whole new world to you. And I would highly suggest listening to your favorite guitarists that solo/improvise to get some ideas.

I just tabbed the solos to Cortez The Killer from the Central Park concert and those are fantastic examples of how to improvise. The chord progression is pretty simple - Em D Am, and the song is in the key of Em, so you'd use the Em scale to solo.

And if you have any questions about soloing, chords, etc. ask away - I'll help you best I can.

[GSR]

Well, for starters you should learn some basic chord theory if you want to improvise effectively. There are many, many sites on the net - just google "chord theory", "music theory", or "improvisation", etc. and you should uncover loads of stuff that should help you. A great site I've used is http://www.looknohands.com, a great reference for chords and scales. Another GREAT site I've used, has been very helpful to me, is jazzguitar.be. Those sites should point you in the right direction. And remember to have fun, improvisation can be a bit tough at first, but once you get the hang of it it'll open up a whole new world to you. And I would highly suggest listening to your favorite guitarists that solo/improvise to get some ideas.

I just tabbed the solos to Cortez The Killer from the Central Park concert and those are fantastic examples of how to improvise. The chord progression is pretty simple - Em D Am, and the song is in the key of Em, so you'd use the Em scale to solo.

And if you have any questions about soloing, chords, etc. ask away - I'll help you best I can.

So it's not like you're using the minor scale shape and moving it from Em to D to Am as the chord progression progresses? You can just use the Em scale the whole time?

[Appfro]

thanks man, i know its simple stuff, but you gotta start somewhere!

any other suggestions?

start where pat told you to and then eventually move to different scales. it's easier w/ guitar because it's the same pattern, just w/ a different starting note. you don't have to worry about black keys and white keys like you do w/ guitar. so next go w/ G

play G - D - Em - C
G major scale - G A B C D E F# G

then do D - A - Bm - G
D major scale - D E F# G A B C# D

and so no. when you get the hang out that, move to modes. i still have to get better at those, but there's a good thread stickied in i think this forum about them. i personally disagree w/ just sitting around and reading a theory book. you learn theory this way, and if you're anything like me, you have to learn by doing, not necessarily by reading about it.

[Appfro]

Well, for starters you should learn some basic chord theory if you want to improvise effectively. There are many, many sites on the net - just google "chord theory", "music theory", or "improvisation", etc. and you should uncover loads of stuff that should help you. A great site I've used is http://www.looknohands.com, a great reference for chords and scales. Another GREAT site I've used, has been very helpful to me, is jazzguitar.be. Those sites should point you in the right direction. And remember to have fun, improvisation can be a bit tough at first, but once you get the hang of it it'll open up a whole new world to you. And I would highly suggest listening to your favorite guitarists that solo/improvise to get some ideas.

I just tabbed the solos to Cortez The Killer from the Central Park concert and those are fantastic examples of how to improvise. The chord progression is pretty simple - Em D Am, and the song is in the key of Em, so you'd use the Em scale to solo.

And if you have any questions about soloing, chords, etc. ask away - I'll help you best I can.

So it's not like you're using the minor scale shape and moving it from Em to D to Am as the chord progression progresses? You can just use the Em scale the whole time?

yes, but a really good soloist like warren haynes moves his solo to fit the chord progression. most blues guitarists do this too. i personally am just getting to the point where i can hear this out, but i can't do it necessarily on purpose...i don't know the notes on a guitar neck well enough. but that's called soloing over chords and warren does a bit of both in that cortez solo.

edit: maybe i didn't explain that very well. what i'm saying is that he is using the Em scale the entire time, but as the chord progression moves, sometimes he hits the root note of the change in his solo on purpose to fit the solo. he can also use the root's fifth or fourth to match a sound he's going for. but basically, soloing over the chords would mean he would play an E note when the Em chord as being played and play a lick that would mostly encompass Em chord notes and move to a D note when the change happens and then to an A note when the Am chord happens and so on.

you don't have to follow this, especially playing notes w/in the chord, but following the root notes is usually a good start to a good solo. he will venture off of course too when he feels like it.

[Elliottman]

ok guys thanks for the replies so far.

Now ive just googled and try to fathom out this.

The Am penatonic is the same as the C Major scale except for different fingering but they are the same notes?

So whats the point? Is it so like, if someone played an Am, you would play the Am scale, and if they changed to a C you would play the C Major Scale??? Am i getting any of this?

[Appfro]

ok guys thanks for the replies so far.

Now ive just googled and try to fathom out this.

The Am penatonic is the same as the C Major scale except for different fingering but they are the same notes?

So whats the point? Is it so like, if someone played an Am, you would play the Am scale, and if they changed to a C you would play the C Major Scale??? Am i getting any of this?

see, you're basically already trying to jump into modes...which is harder. yes, Am scale is the same as C major scale. the difference is that you start at the A instead of the C in the scale, same notes.

C = c d e f g a b c

Am = a b c d e f g a

when you play it from the A, it sounds sad or minor. when you play it from the C, it sounds happy or major.

every major scale has a relative minor scale that follows the exact same notes. C's relative minor is A. D's relative minor is B. G's relative minor is E. and so on.

honestly, if i were you, i would stick to major scales right now. once you understand those, then move on to minor scales, then move on to the other modes.

edit: i didn't see your last question
no, if someoen was playing an Am you wouldn't play the Am scale just to suit the chord. you play the scale to suit the key of the song.

if a chord progression is C G Am F
then you'll use C major
if the progression is
Am C F G
then mostly likely the song is goign to be in Am instead of C (same notes, but different feel for the song)
you don't want to be playing happy scales over a sad song, so you would use the Am scale instead. ...unless there is a key change, you keep the scale you're using for the entire song when first learning.

[Elliottman]

right ok, i jumped from Am to C because of a stupid website! Im trying hard to understand all this, but i really suck at guitar thoery. Good job ive booked some lessons for next week!! haha.

But ill try and learn a few minor scales before the lesson so im not so far behind.

[taparoo]

Well, for starters you should learn some basic chord theory if you want to improvise effectively. There are many, many sites on the net - just google "chord theory", "music theory", or "improvisation", etc. and you should uncover loads of stuff that should help you. A great site I've used is http://www.looknohands.com, a great reference for chords and scales. Another GREAT site I've used, has been very helpful to me, is jazzguitar.be. Those sites should point you in the right direction. And remember to have fun, improvisation can be a bit tough at first, but once you get the hang of it it'll open up a whole new world to you. And I would highly suggest listening to your favorite guitarists that solo/improvise to get some ideas.

I just tabbed the solos to Cortez The Killer from the Central Park concert and those are fantastic examples of how to improvise. The chord progression is pretty simple - Em D Am, and the song is in the key of Em, so you'd use the Em scale to solo.

And if you have any questions about soloing, chords, etc. ask away - I'll help you best I can.

So it's not like you're using the minor scale shape and moving it from Em to D to Am as the chord progression progresses? You can just use the Em scale the whole time?

Well, kinda like Appfro said, since all those chords, Em, D, and Am fit perfectly into the 'mold', or chord formula of Em, that being i ii° III iv v VI VII - that being the minor I chord, diminished two chord, major three chord, etc. (the lower-case roman numerals being minor and upper-case being major) of the Eminor scale, so that would be Em (minor one), F#dim (diminished two, and F# because the Em scale contains the sharp F#), G major (major third) and so on.

Because these chords fit into the chord formula of Em with no exceptions, then you can use the Em scale, which Warren does almost exclusively when soloing during CTK. The thing a good soloist would do (and Warren does very much during CTK solos) is change the notes you're focusing on as the chords change. So, you're not changing the scale you're playing in at all, all you're changing is the notes you emphasize/hold longer. This is where knowing chord theory comes in handy.
Let's look at that first big bend Warren holds with tons of vibrato in the opening solo of CTK. The note he holds is a B (he bends an A note up one whole step, raising its pitch two frets, making the note B), he's playing over an Em chord, which consists of the notes E, G, and B. The bend sounds good, seems to fit. Why? In short, because B is included in the chord makeup of Em. So, when soloing over the Em, you want to hit the notes E, G, or B. Over the D, you ask? The D is made up of D, F#, and A (if you're wondering how you get these notes, they are the 1, 3, and 5 intervals of the D major scale, this formula is different when you're working with minor chords, as they consist of the 1, b3, and 5 of the major scale), so you'd focus on those notes when you're playing over the D. And, last the Am, consisting of A, C, and E - those notes would be your targets.

Now, you could also change the scale to fit each chord, but it would feel/sound a bit odd. This isn't "wrong", it's just a different way to approaching the progression.

[CWMCALL]

I am slowly going through the book "Fretboard Roadmaps" right now. The book is geared to help an idiot like me start the process of learning guitar theory and improv. So far it seems pretty good...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/079352 ... e&n=283155

[Alazais]

I am slowly going through the book "Fretboard Roadmaps" right now. The book is geared to help an idiot like me start the process of learning guitar theory and improv. So far it seems pretty good...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/079352 ... e&n=283155

Hmm. Worth buying, how far into the book are you and where were you at in your playing before you started? I need to pick something up to teach myself more about playing lead. I tried following what was said above and i'm just outright lost.