Raised-B.......I GOT IT!!!

grock · Unread post by **grock** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:38 pm

you can also just play all those songs in E standard as iff it was raised B. can't play with the record but oh well.

gcom007 · Unread post by **gcom007** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:09 pm

Davy28 wrote:In YNK, strumming the open strings with the intro/verse gives it fuller sound in raised B.

since it's vitally important that this one song or maybe two have a fuller sound, sure, put a guitar in a stupid tuning, yes!

Davy28 · Unread post by **Davy28** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:10 am

Whats your point?

Jay · Unread post by **Jay** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:12 am

if you have an extra guitar lying around, what's the problem? YNK sounds way better in B

Appfro · Unread post by **Appfro** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 1:21 am

IF you have an extra guitar lying around? yea maybe, but i know i don't have an extra guitar lying around that i don't care about enough to put it into a tuning that could ruin the guitar and that i only know 3 songs in. its not worth it

the floodzone · Unread post by **the floodzone** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:45 am

Appsoldier wrote:IF you have an extra guitar lying around? yea maybe, but i know i don't have an extra guitar lying around that i don't care about enough to put it into a tuning that could ruin the guitar and that i only know 3 songs in. its not worth it

Could it ruin the guitar if you use the proper strings?

Chris

geekmug · Unread post by **geekmug** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:04 am

I'd have to get like a chart of lbf to guage to pitch.. I'm guessing you can find a set of guages that will come out to the same lbf as a standard set..

BUT, inevitably to do it right you have to have a new nut cut and probably a new saddle (but you might be able to get away with the existing) .. otherwise you will buzz.

geekmug · Unread post by **geekmug** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:37 am

boredom struck me.. and it was a good excuse to learn some more stuff in maple (math tool, if you aren't aware).

Standard tuning with light gauge strings is about 200 lbf of tension.. solving for string diameters keeping the tension of each string the same yields the following diameters.. I make no assumption about how good this set will sound because standard strings are not equal tension across the strings, so perhaps it'd be better to not have spread the tension the same as this..

.035 .028 .021 .016 .010 .008

*shrug* that's with the actual high-B and not the octave drop.. I don't even know if you can get strings these gauges or not, but they are the ideal.

Adjusting that for reasonably findable gauges..

.035 .026 .023 .016 .010 .010

which is terrible mixed set.. but is only 215 lbf, which is about the same tension if you tuned a standard guitar to Open Emaj.. as a reference.

btw, the 543212 (assuming you all mean for the high-B to be an octave low for real raised-B) pattern yields a tension of 250 lbf.. I think it is clear that this is putting a signifigcantly greater amount of tension.

So, IMHO, YOU ARE DAMAGING YOUR GUITAR. But, I am not guitar maker or anything, but I can handle the math, I am sure my numbers are accurate.

So, future reference.. I recommend the guages I listed above to do raised-B without hurting your guitar (buzzing aside, a new nut will most likely be required).

Note: all math was done with the assumption of a 27.5in scale length and some density constants that I pulled from a book.

geekmug · Unread post by **geekmug** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:48 pm

After doing some research.. I think my density guess was off a bit.. most of my per-string tensions are high.. but the relative values are still accurate.. and so the pick of guages is still ok too.

grock · Unread post by **grock** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:58 pm

yep. having equal tension on all the strings is not right. Many string manufacturers have a FAQ on their websites where they answer this question. it is because some strings are louder and stuff. anyways. what i normally do is use the Universal String Tension Calculator. check it out here. http://www.kennaquhair.com/ustc.htm just enter in what you normally have on the guitar and then adjust the string guage and not so that each string tension stays about the same.

it is also good to see what keeping that guitar in open E is really doing. Generally having a tension of 17 lbf on a string is taking it close to it's breaking point, and having a guitar with most of the strings at or near 17 will cause damage

Appfro · Unread post by **Appfro** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:50 am

the floodzone wrote:
Appsoldier wrote:IF you have an extra guitar lying around? yea maybe, but i know i don't have an extra guitar lying around that i don't care about enough to put it into a tuning that could ruin the guitar and that i only know 3 songs in. its not worth it
Could it ruin the guitar if you use the proper strings?

Chris

i have no idea. ask elliot or fatjack. they'd know. my guess would be probably, but again, i don't know.

geekmug · Unread post by **geekmug** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 7:13 am

grock good point about the balance of sound.. I was merely going by standard string diameter -> raised-B diameter keeping the tension the same on each string.. but I imagine since there are several strings that need to wound strings that become unwound, they probably need to have slightly less tension to not be too loud..

Although I disagree with you about the 17 lbf thing.. my research finds most acoustics are at least 23lbf per string on a 25.5" scale instrument.. our beloved Taylor x14s are 27.5" and that's at least 27 lbf per string.

http://www.pacificsites.net/~dog/String ... pplet.html

"That said, lightweight guitar string sets have about 23# of tension on the plain strings, 26# on the low E, and 30# on the other wound strings. Medium gauge guitar sets have roughly 26# on the plain, 30# on the low E and 36# on the rest. "

Using that applet.. standard tuning with lights is about 190lbf and the modified raised-B that everyone is starting to use is 230lbf.. Using mediums gets you up to 220lbf. And I am guessing most people's guitar's can't handle mediums even, so going up to this raised-B is a bad idea.

New rule of thumb.. if your guitar doesn't wield Medium gauges strings 24/7 with no problems, don't even try this modified raised-B pattern!!

After learning some more.. I would go with this set on a 27.5" guitar

.036 .029 .017 .012 .010 .015

tension = 165 lbf .. slightly below norm, but that's better than above.. will require a truss rod adjustment, but should be fine.

And that's plain steel except for the bottom two. It's a sucky place in pitches to be for strings because a 3rd wound string would be better tension-wise, but you can't get a small enough wound string that wouldn't break. And those are all obtainable sizes.. even in say EXP style strings..

EDIT - listed the strings backwards.. fixed now

fatjack · Unread post by **fatjack** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:07 am

Appsoldier wrote:
the floodzone wrote:
Appsoldier wrote:IF you have an extra guitar lying around? yea maybe, but i know i don't have an extra guitar lying around that i don't care about enough to put it into a tuning that could ruin the guitar and that i only know 3 songs in. its not worth it
Could it ruin the guitar if you use the proper strings?

Chris
i have no idea. ask elliot or fatjack. they'd know. my guess would be probably, but again, i don't know.

i don't know shit about this :lol:

isaac · Unread post by **isaac** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:54 am

geekmug's posts hurt my head. but i think they're important.

fatjack · Unread post by **fatjack** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:03 am

isaac wrote:geekmug's posts hurt my head. but i think they're important.

yeah, i'm gonna need to take some classes on acoustics and such...

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Raised-B.......I GOT IT!!!

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