An original, need some help with it please..

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fatjack
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Unread post by fatjack » Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:04 pm

oldman wrote:Miguel,

I thought is song was awesome. As far as what "fatjack" said about no hook....screw that...As soon as you sang "this life", it totally hooked me. I thought it was a great tune with a ton of emotion. I'd love to hear more of your original stuff. Good Job!
okay then, without listening to it again, i challenge you to hum part of the melody.

you can't, because the song has no hook.

i dont want to get into a whole arguement trying to defend myself, my constructive criticism will help him more than your dicksucking will. miguel knows and expects that i will be honest, so it wont bother him

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Unread post by MWR » Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:52 pm

Ok finally got it to work.

This whole bullshit about it not having a hook really bothers me. Keep in mind I tell it like it is and leave the "dicksucking" to the noobs.
Yes the song lacks an obvious hook but there's enough there that it's a non isssure. What this song has in spades is PASSION and I value that more than anything. Without it it's just a by-the-dozen pop song and as we all know those things are designed with the soul reason of having a hook so the thing gets stuck in your head. I think your "constructive" critisism is seriously off Josh.

This reminded me of Howie Day alot. Perhaps a little too much. While I don't think it needs to be more hooky I do think there should be a bridge or some sort of break. I know the lead break is in there and I liked that but I think the mood should shift more and then come back. It gives a sense of movement and breaks up repitition.
Your voice was awesome although again the resemblance to Howie Day was pretty evident. I would be surprised if you told me you don't listen to him...really surprised.
As far as the recording I would have liked a bit more low end on the acoustic.

Awesome job period. Please get us some more originals quick.

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Unread post by fatjack » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:54 pm

MWR wrote:Ok finally got it to work.

This whole bullshit about it not having a hook really bothers me. Keep in mind I tell it like it is and leave the "dicksucking" to the noobs.
Yes the song lacks an obvious hook but there's enough there that it's a non isssure. What this song has in spades is PASSION and I value that more than anything. Without it it's just a by-the-dozen pop song and as we all know those things are designed with the soul reason of having a hook so the thing gets stuck in your head. I think your "constructive" critisism is seriously off Josh.

This reminded me of Howie Day alot. Perhaps a little too much. While I don't think it needs to be more hooky I do think there should be a bridge or some sort of break. I know the lead break is in there and I liked that but I think the mood should shift more and then come back. It gives a sense of movement and breaks up repitition.
Your voice was awesome although again the resemblance to Howie Day was pretty evident. I would be surprised if you told me you don't listen to him...really surprised.
As far as the recording I would have liked a bit more low end on the acoustic.

Awesome job period. Please get us some more originals quick.
I never said that the "by-the-dozen" pop song was what he should be going for; listen to any jazz standard: it will have a hook (or in actual jazz lingo "the head"). A hook doesn't have to be some annoying repetitive theme in a song; it can be the fast tempo, a melodic bass line, or a unique guitar riff. Maybe the best term to use wasn't "hook." Perhaps it would be better if I put it this way: the song lacks something that makes me want to listen to it again.

And the fact that it seems to remind so many people of Howie Day is why I think it needs some work. First of all, Howie Day is a hack who can't sing on key. Miguel CAN sing on key. When I hear a song that is written by Miguel, I want to be able to think "hey, that sounds like a Miguel song" not "hey, that sounds like a hack who can't sing." (which i really didn't think either of these things)

And I did mention that he was into it, or what you said is passion. That's cool and all, but it's just not an interesting song. That's great if Miguel has fun playing it, but I didn't feel the same thing he did. Let's not forget I never said it was a bad song. The guitar playing was solid and Miguel doesn't need me to tell him that his voice is amazing. It wasn't a bad song, I just didn't find anything unique about it.

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Unread post by MWR » Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:19 pm

Ok fair enough. That's an adequate explanation.
Using the word "hook" had me confused but I get what your saying now.

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Unread post by Trippin Hillbilly » Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:52 am

Thanks Mike, I was looking forward to your opinion on it.... but Howie Day? Really? I don't listen to him at all. I agree that the song needs a bridge for a change of pace but that's what I thought I did during the electric solo. I guess it needs a bit more of a change of pace. Thanks.

FJ, I understand what you're saying and you're entitled to your opinion. I feel that it is missing something but that it has potential so I'm not going to give up on it. I think I might try incorporate some sort of hook into a bass line... ala crush. Thanks for your comments.

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Unread post by Appfro » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:03 am

I agree w/ the Oldman guys saying that the "This Life" part does it for me. But unfortunately it's a 2 second part of the song. It's and 2:16 - 2:28 leading into the electric part were the only parts that made me really close my eyes and get into it.

FJ was right that the electric didn't fit the way the song was right now, but w/ a full band, it would be freaking awesome I feel. I love the drone of it. I use that a lot in my songs too. Easy guitar pieces w/ 3 or 4 notes do more for me than busy pieces.

FJ's right, it's not very hooky, but I've gotten into music like that cause I seem to never get tired of listening to it.

And as always, great voice. But I need not even write that. Great job. Not sure what you're talking about as far as missing something. I like the song a lot.

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Unread post by Raif2032 » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:42 pm

I really liked it man, I thought it was great. Loved the ending and the vocals kicked ass.

I guess my thought is that maybe people feel "something is missing" because it doesn't sound like something you'd hear on the radio. If you haven listened to the radio though recently, I think it's a good thing..

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Unread post by i-am-me » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:55 pm

miguel this doesn't work for me. i really want to hear it, but its not working!
~Mikey
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Unread post by fatjack » Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:14 pm

Trippin Hillbilly wrote:Thanks Mike, I was looking forward to your opinion on it.... but Howie Day? Really? I don't listen to him at all. I agree that the song needs a bridge for a change of pace but that's what I thought I did during the electric solo. I guess it needs a bit more of a change of pace. Thanks.

FJ, I understand what you're saying and you're entitled to your opinion. I feel that it is missing something but that it has potential so I'm not going to give up on it. I think I might try incorporate some sort of hook into a bass line... ala crush. Thanks for your comments.
i never said that you should give up on it...

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Unread post by Trippin Hillbilly » Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:40 pm

fatjack wrote:
Trippin Hillbilly wrote:Thanks Mike, I was looking forward to your opinion on it.... but Howie Day? Really? I don't listen to him at all. I agree that the song needs a bridge for a change of pace but that's what I thought I did during the electric solo. I guess it needs a bit more of a change of pace. Thanks.

FJ, I understand what you're saying and you're entitled to your opinion. I feel that it is missing something but that it has potential so I'm not going to give up on it. I think I might try incorporate some sort of hook into a bass line... ala crush. Thanks for your comments.
i never said that you should give up on it...
I didn't say you did....and if you had, honestly, i wouldn't care. :wink:

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Unread post by MWR » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:35 pm

Trippin Hillbilly wrote:Thanks Mike, I was looking forward to your opinion on it.... but Howie Day? Really? I don't listen to him at all. I agree that the song needs a bridge for a change of pace but that's what I thought I did during the electric solo. I guess it needs a bit more of a change of pace. Thanks.
.
That's not an insult if you ask me but I understand how annoying it is when people say you sound like someone else. It's not so much that the songs sound similar it's more of stylistic thing. I don't know maybe I'm way off here.

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Unread post by foxymophandlemama » Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:04 am

That was BITCHIN... enough said!

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Unread post by fatjack » Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:53 pm

Trippin Hillbilly wrote:
fatjack wrote:
Trippin Hillbilly wrote:Thanks Mike, I was looking forward to your opinion on it.... but Howie Day? Really? I don't listen to him at all. I agree that the song needs a bridge for a change of pace but that's what I thought I did during the electric solo. I guess it needs a bit more of a change of pace. Thanks.

FJ, I understand what you're saying and you're entitled to your opinion. I feel that it is missing something but that it has potential so I'm not going to give up on it. I think I might try incorporate some sort of hook into a bass line... ala crush. Thanks for your comments.
i never said that you should give up on it...
I didn't say you did....and if you had, honestly, i wouldn't care. :wink:
awww, does that mean my opinion means nothing to you? :cry:

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Unread post by Trippin Hillbilly » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:33 am

fatjack wrote:
Trippin Hillbilly wrote:
fatjack wrote:
Trippin Hillbilly wrote:Thanks Mike, I was looking forward to your opinion on it.... but Howie Day? Really? I don't listen to him at all. I agree that the song needs a bridge for a change of pace but that's what I thought I did during the electric solo. I guess it needs a bit more of a change of pace. Thanks.

FJ, I understand what you're saying and you're entitled to your opinion. I feel that it is missing something but that it has potential so I'm not going to give up on it. I think I might try incorporate some sort of hook into a bass line... ala crush. Thanks for your comments.
i never said that you should give up on it...
I didn't say you did....and if you had, honestly, i wouldn't care. :wink:
awww, does that mean my opinion means nothing to you? :cry:
no, I value your opinion

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