Scales and phrasing...learning to make your guitar speak

[Granny33]

my advice: forget theory learn the pentatonic scale and have some fun. though it would probably be best to not listen to me because i can't make my own solos lol.

[MWR]

I've just recently gotten into scales and I am loving it. Grock, fatjack and any other scales fretboard connoisseur on this board, I vastly appreciate the time you guys take to explain some of this stuff. Thank you.

I'm hurt I wasn't included in that.

[MWR]

grock made a wonderful post, but he left out something important. if you sit there and read those books and learn to solo that way, its all good, but your best friend is your ears. listen to the notes and experiment. the scales should serve as a guideline, but not absolute law. branch out and try things to see how they sound, and no two songs will be the same, so your method of soloing should be different as well, but that just gets into the use of arpeggios...

Very good point.

I think a lot of people get the idea that great solos cant be created with just your basic major/minor scale so they saturate their mind with more complex scales and harmony. But the real essence of a solo is not the just the notes it's how you put them together. This may seem obvious but begginers will play a minor pentatonic up and down in one position and think they're SRV. It expressive things like bends, vibrato, slides, ho/po, etc. that really connect people with what your doing. Piano players can't get the same expression that guitarists can so take advantage of it.
So my advice is to learn the following: the notes on the fretboard, the major/minor scale, and the major/minor pentatonic. When you have memorized, and more importantly, internalized these "simple" scales than add complexity using the expressive tools I mentioned. It's not the amount of knowledge it's how you put it to use.

To answer your question:
A natural minor will work over the majority of the progression save the Bm(due to the F#).
A minor pentatonic doesnt have an F#(or any F at all) so it can be used without reservation over the entire progression. A minor Blues pentatonic is the same but it adds an Eb which would have to be played as a passing tone and never on a downbeat as it would clash.
A Dorian has a raised sixth degree (A B C D E F# G) so it could be used temporarily over the Bm. C Lydian shares the same notes as A Dorian so you can use this scale as well but depending on how you apply emphasis to the tonic it won't sound any different.
Arpeggios can and should be used as they sound less scaler and will break the monotony of just scale movement.
On top of all this you can use chromatic passing tones and upper/lower neighbors to add a non-diatonic (notes outside the scale) flavor. Although these are more advanced concepts you can get a feel of chromaticism when playing the minor blues pentatonic.
As you can see the variations are not endless but theres a lot to grasp here. Just remember that you can make wonderful music using one scale wisely.
Ok my fingers hurt now but I'll be back...

[fatjack]

my advice: forget theory learn the pentatonic scale and have some fun. though it would probably be best to not listen to me because i can't make my own solos lol.

starting off with the pentatonic scale is not a bad idea at all. this is what i did: start off memorizing the minor pentatonic all the way up and down the fretboard. then from there i learned the three minor modes (dorian, phyrgian, and aeolian), which is just adding two notes to the pentatonic shape. and once i knew the three modes, i just learned to rest by changing the tonic. basically, its only one scale, just played in different places

[fatjack]

I've just recently gotten into scales and I am loving it. Grock, fatjack and any other scales fretboard connoisseur on this board, I vastly appreciate the time you guys take to explain some of this stuff. Thank you.

i have to be good at something dont i?

[grock]

my advice: forget theory learn the pentatonic scale and have some fun. though it would probably be best to not listen to me because i can't make my own solos lol.

starting off with the pentatonic scale is not a bad idea at all. this is what i did: start off memorizing the minor pentatonic all the way up and down the fretboard. then from there i learned the three minor modes (dorian, phyrgian, and aeolian), which is just adding two notes to the pentatonic shape. and once i knew the three modes, i just learned to rest by changing the tonic. basically, its only one scale, just played in different places

i learned playing chords in multiple places and constructing them in the scales. so i have a good ability to go from a solo to play a section of the song in other chord positions and then go back to playing. it's really good for emphasizing (think do do do do do, dunt dunt dunt, then back into the solo) so i am partial to not learning "scale shapes" up and down the fretboard cuz someday you may wake up and realize you are stuck in those boxes.

i don't like saying "learn the pentatonic" because it leaves out the most expressive tones in the scale. namely the fourth and the seventh (in major) arghhh. but i can see how it can be a major advantage for learning. and minor is kinda different. this is just personal dissaproval of the scale cuz the diatonic already leaves out like half the notes and now you are cutting 2 of them for no particular good reason except to avoid the clash instead of using it to an advantage. and for all the pentatonic lovers out there, sorry for my rant against the pentatonic. again that's just my personal feelings about it cuz it can be used as a crutch too often than a learning tool.

And MWR i'll give you mad props for your post. that's heavy analysis. as more proof of your point about the expressiveness of guitar bends and vibrato, i often do slow bends of the tonic up a quarter to a half step, cuz i like it. it makes people go "what the.. oh it's just the tonic" but it grabs the attention for sure. i'll guarantee most scales don't include quarter steps. and i love those slow scale vibratos on every note just making it sing. whew. word up.

[fatjack]

i don't like saying "learn the pentatonic" because it leaves out the most expressive tones in the scale. namely the fourth and the seventh (in major) arghhh. but i can see how it can be a major advantage for learning. and minor is kinda different. this is just personal dissaproval of the scale cuz the diatonic already leaves out like half the notes and now you are cutting 2 of them for no particular good reason except to avoid the clash instead of using it to an advantage. and for all the pentatonic lovers out there, sorry for my rant against the pentatonic. again that's just my personal feelings about it cuz it can be used as a crutch too often than a learning tool.

i totally agree dude, the only reason i said that is because the pentatonic is so easy to learn. once you have it down, you can add the expressive tones in very easily because they fit nicely inbetween the one and a half step spots in the pentatonic scale

and you dont have to be stuck in a box when you learn the scale. if you know the entire scale up and down (by connecting the boxes!) then you dont get stuck in just one shape, you have all of it to work with

[grock]

i don't like saying "learn the pentatonic" because it leaves out the most expressive tones in the scale. namely the fourth and the seventh (in major) arghhh. but i can see how it can be a major advantage for learning. and minor is kinda different. this is just personal dissaproval of the scale cuz the diatonic already leaves out like half the notes and now you are cutting 2 of them for no particular good reason except to avoid the clash instead of using it to an advantage. and for all the pentatonic lovers out there, sorry for my rant against the pentatonic. again that's just my personal feelings about it cuz it can be used as a crutch too often than a learning tool.

i totally agree dude, the only reason i said that is because the pentatonic is so easy to learn. once you have it down, you can add the expressive tones in very easily because they fit nicely inbetween the one and a half step spots in the pentatonic scale

and you dont have to be stuck in a box when you learn the scale. if you know the entire scale up and down (by connecting the boxes!) then you dont get stuck in just one shape, you have all of it to work with

ok, cool. i do consider you to be more knowledgable about all of this so if all the boxes go together then i guess it's ok. and if people use the pentatonic as a step that's cool too. see i just know my notes and scales up and down and move around all i want. that's just something i noticed is some guys will solo and just sit there at the 12th fret and play in their box instead of using it all. such a shame to waste the rest of the board. or they know the pentatonic and while it's nice, there is nothing special at all about the solo. listen to some pop music sometime. pentatonic all up in that. and it just get's boring.

[fatjack]

i don't like saying "learn the pentatonic" because it leaves out the most expressive tones in the scale. namely the fourth and the seventh (in major) arghhh. but i can see how it can be a major advantage for learning. and minor is kinda different. this is just personal dissaproval of the scale cuz the diatonic already leaves out like half the notes and now you are cutting 2 of them for no particular good reason except to avoid the clash instead of using it to an advantage. and for all the pentatonic lovers out there, sorry for my rant against the pentatonic. again that's just my personal feelings about it cuz it can be used as a crutch too often than a learning tool.

i totally agree dude, the only reason i said that is because the pentatonic is so easy to learn. once you have it down, you can add the expressive tones in very easily because they fit nicely inbetween the one and a half step spots in the pentatonic scale

and you dont have to be stuck in a box when you learn the scale. if you know the entire scale up and down (by connecting the boxes!) then you dont get stuck in just one shape, you have all of it to work with

ok, cool. i do consider you to be more knowledgable about all of this so if all the boxes go together then i guess it's ok. and if people use the pentatonic as a step that's cool too. see i just know my notes and scales up and down and move around all i want. that's just something i noticed is some guys will solo and just sit there at the 12th fret and play in their box instead of using it all. such a shame to waste the rest of the board. or they know the pentatonic and while it's nice, there is nothing special at all about the solo. listen to some pop music sometime. pentatonic all up in that. and it just get's boring.

awww, now i feel all cool cuz you think i know more than you

but you will always have me on luthiery

[i-am-me]

i konw almost nothing about theory, but the only thing i've learned to do is connect the major and minor pentatonic....and then some random notes outside that just sound good. lol.

is that bad?

[fatjack]

i konw almost nothing about theory, but the only thing i've learned to do is connect the major and minor pentatonic....and then some random notes outside that just sound good. lol.

is that bad?

its not bad that you know that, but it will be bad if after a while thats all you still know

[i-am-me]

well yea...cause the thing is, i stopped with my teacher cause he told me i was wasting my money.

i started with him after i had taught myself for awhile so i could learn things like scales and little polish ups to make my guitar playing much better. but he told me that i wasn't learning anything from him, so we stopped. He showed me two or three other scales, but i don't remember them. ....too bad i guess.

[MWR]

i don't like saying "learn the pentatonic" because it leaves out the most expressive tones in the scale. namely the fourth and the seventh (in major) arghhh. but i can see how it can be a major advantage for learning. and minor is kinda different. this is just personal dissaproval of the scale cuz the diatonic already leaves out like half the notes and now you are cutting 2 of them for no particular good reason except to avoid the clash instead of using it to an advantage. and for all the pentatonic lovers out there, sorry for my rant against the pentatonic. again that's just my personal feelings about it cuz it can be used as a crutch too often than a learning tool.

i totally agree dude, the only reason i said that is because the pentatonic is so easy to learn. once you have it down, you can add the expressive tones in very easily because they fit nicely inbetween the one and a half step spots in the pentatonic scale

and you dont have to be stuck in a box when you learn the scale. if you know the entire scale up and down (by connecting the boxes!) then you dont get stuck in just one shape, you have all of it to work with

ok, cool. i do consider you to be more knowledgable about all of this so if all the boxes go together then i guess it's ok. and if people use the pentatonic as a step that's cool too. see i just know my notes and scales up and down and move around all i want. that's just something i noticed is some guys will solo and just sit there at the 12th fret and play in their box instead of using it all. such a shame to waste the rest of the board. or they know the pentatonic and while it's nice, there is nothing special at all about the solo. listen to some pop music sometime. pentatonic all up in that. and it just get's boring.

You guys both made a good point. I think constant repitition and desire to understand the scales will make "playing inside a box" fall by the wayside. It's not the patterns that cause people to play predictably it's the people. You know.

[MWR]

my advice: forget theory learn the pentatonic scale and have some fun. though it would probably be best to not listen to me because i can't make my own solos lol.

starting off with the pentatonic scale is not a bad idea at all. this is what i did: start off memorizing the minor pentatonic all the way up and down the fretboard. then from there i learned the three minor modes (dorian, phyrgian, and aeolian), which is just adding two notes to the pentatonic shape. and once i knew the three modes, i just learned to rest by changing the tonic. basically, its only one scale, just played in different places

i learned playing chords in multiple places and constructing them in the scales. so i have a good ability to go from a solo to play a section of the song in other chord positions and then go back to playing. it's really good for emphasizing (think do do do do do, dunt dunt dunt, then back into the solo) so i am partial to not learning "scale shapes" up and down the fretboard cuz someday you may wake up and realize you are stuck in those boxes.

i don't like saying "learn the pentatonic" because it leaves out the most expressive tones in the scale. namely the fourth and the seventh (in major) arghhh. but i can see how it can be a major advantage for learning. and minor is kinda different. this is just personal dissaproval of the scale cuz the diatonic already leaves out like half the notes and now you are cutting 2 of them for no particular good reason except to avoid the clash instead of using it to an advantage. and for all the pentatonic lovers out there, sorry for my rant against the pentatonic. again that's just my personal feelings about it cuz it can be used as a crutch too often than a learning tool.

And MWR i'll give you mad props for your post. that's heavy analysis. as more proof of your point about the expressiveness of guitar bends and vibrato, i often do slow bends of the tonic up a quarter to a half step, cuz i like it. it makes people go "what the.. oh it's just the tonic" but it grabs the attention for sure. i'll guarantee most scales don't include quarter steps. and i love those slow scale vibratos on every note just making it sing. whew. word up.

Thanks man

You bring up a good point about the harmonized scale. By memorizing seven simple triads in different positions you can create a lot of textures. It's yet another way to add interest that doesn't really involve learning something completely new.
I recently devoted a lot of time to learning bends and getting the intonation right. The problem is for people who play acoustic, they don't have the ability to bend up to the proper note so it never sounds right. Bending up a whole step on any of the wound strings is not easy but it packs a lot of emotion. An effect I really like is adding vibrato to bends.

[grock]

well yea...cause the thing is, i stopped with my teacher cause he told me i was wasting my money.

i started with him after i had taught myself for awhile so i could learn things like scales and little polish ups to make my guitar playing much better. but he told me that i wasn't learning anything from him, so we stopped. He showed me two or three other scales, but i don't remember them. ....too bad i guess.

i'm not saying to take a guitar class or guitar lessons. i think taking a theory class, like at a university or community college would benefit you greater than guitar lessons. most lessons are good for getting started.