mayer or harper

fatjack · Unread post by **fatjack** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:32 pm

gcom007 wrote:
fatjack wrote:
QuattroDore wrote: That may be true, but reread dustin's last post. It doesn't even compare. None of Mayer's songs can give you goosebumps just by listening to him sing. Just watch the bonus material on Pleasure and Pain of him playing "I Shall Not Walk Alone" with the Blind Boys of Alabama for example.

Now THAT is emotion.
i never said that he gave me goosebumps, more like painful convulsions...

and his voice sounds like he's smoked since the womb
and the funny thing is that he doesn't smoke

yeah, his voice just sucks ass

gcom007 · Unread post by **gcom007** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:41 pm

it blows my mind how people look at theory like it's a bad thing...look at it this way...let's compare music to words...ben harper's songs are pretty much based off simple chords. there's nothing tough about it. it's the elementary school of guitar work. think about how elementary school students write for a second. as you grow older as a student, you learn more words and more ways to express yourself to the point where you can freely express yourself b/c you're not bound by the knowledge of your mind. it's not like you have to try so hard to find the words to tap into the emotion, they're already there and you can make the best poetry. Think about how that relates to theory...am I making sense? A perfect example of this w/ Mayer is w/ his song 83...the chords he uses and the rhythm very much give it a nostalgic feel which is what he was going for. How was he able to do that? How was he able to paint a clearer and more beautiful picture? Theory! You learn more and you know more how to express yourself in more articulate manners...gosh...I could go on and on w/ this...forced and no emotion...open your ears and your mind while you're at it!

Beauford33 · Unread post by **Beauford33** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:43 pm

very well said gcom

QuattroDore · Unread post by **QuattroDore** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:47 pm

gcom007 wrote:it blows my mind how people look at theory like it's a bad thing...look at it this way...let's compare music to words...ben harper's songs are pretty much based off simple chords. there's nothing tough about it. it's the elementary school of guitar work. think about how elementary school students write for a second. as you grow older as a student, you learn more words and more ways to express yourself to the point where you can freely express yourself b/c you're not bound by the knowledge of your mind. it's not like you have to try so hard to find the words to tap into the emotion, they're already there and you can make the best poetry. Think about how that relates to theory...am I making sense. A perfect example of this w/ Mayer is w/ his song 83...the chords he uses and the rhythm very much give it a nostalgic feel which is what he was going for. How was he able to do that? How was he able to paint a clearer and more beautiful picture? Theory! You learn more and you know more how to express yourself in more articulate manners...gosh...I could go on and on w/ this...forced and no emotion...open your ears and your mind while you're at it!

It blows MY mind that you could interpret that anyone is saying that theory is a bad thing. Its not. It enables great music to be written. I agree with most everything you've said above, BUT IT DOESN"T EXPLAIN EVERYTHING! Open your eyes, mind, and learn how to read!

Beauford33 · Unread post by **Beauford33** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:52 pm

you know, most people mistake theory for "from the heart". Yes, I believe that theory makes good COMPLICATED music, but "from the heart" makes the bes MUSIC.

gcom007 · Unread post by **gcom007** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:54 pm

QuattroDore wrote:
gcom007 wrote:it blows my mind how people look at theory like it's a bad thing...look at it this way...let's compare music to words...ben harper's songs are pretty much based off simple chords. there's nothing tough about it. it's the elementary school of guitar work. think about how elementary school students write for a second. as you grow older as a student, you learn more words and more ways to express yourself to the point where you can freely express yourself b/c you're not bound by the knowledge of your mind. it's not like you have to try so hard to find the words to tap into the emotion, they're already there and you can make the best poetry. Think about how that relates to theory...am I making sense. A perfect example of this w/ Mayer is w/ his song 83...the chords he uses and the rhythm very much give it a nostalgic feel which is what he was going for. How was he able to do that? How was he able to paint a clearer and more beautiful picture? Theory! You learn more and you know more how to express yourself in more articulate manners...gosh...I could go on and on w/ this...forced and no emotion...open your ears and your mind while you're at it!
It blows MY mind that you could interpret that anyone is saying that theory is a bad thing. Its not. It enables great music to be written. I agree with most everything you've said above, BUT IT DOESN"T EXPLAIN EVERYTHING! Open your eyes, mind, and learn how to read!

what???

QuattroDore · Unread post by **QuattroDore** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:56 pm

read posts above.

gcom007 · Unread post by **gcom007** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:59 pm

ok, bottom line, this thread is utterly and completely ridiculous. you're arguing about how people you don't know really feel when writing a song as if you're inside they're head when they're in the writing and performing process. And basing this off live performance...hello! Bob Dylan. That guys not an excited live performer and there's plenty of passion and emotion in his songs. This is just ridiculous...

gcom007 · Unread post by **gcom007** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:04 pm

QuattroDore wrote:read posts above.

I didn't directly say anyone on this thread said that slick, but there was a general concensus that mayer was just forcing theory in an endless spew from many on this thread. theory has not been exactly spoken of in a bright light here, and many times, people do directly say that theory is a load of BS. This thread made me think of that, as I think many on this thread are being fairly biased on how they apply the use of theory in a sense, in that b/c mayer uses it, he's not writing from real emotion and these guys that aren't using theory are...but theory's still ok. There's definitely a shade of shadiness going on and it doesn't take a genious to spot it. Again, this thread is ridiculous.

mbgreen · Unread post by **mbgreen** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:25 pm

gcom007 wrote:
QuattroDore wrote:read posts above.
I didn't directly say anyone on this thread said that slick, but there was a general concensus that mayer was just forcing theory in an endless spew from many on this thread. theory has not been exactly spoken of in a bright light here, and many times, people do directly say that theory is a load of BS. This thread made me think of that, as I think many on this thread are being fairly biased on how they apply the use of theory in a sense, in that b/c mayer uses it, he's not writing from real emotion and these guys that aren't using theory are...but theory's still ok. There's definitely a shade of shadiness going on and it doesn't take a genious to spot it. Again, this thread is ridiculous.

I'm not saying theory is a bad thing, and I fully agree with what you said about it helping to express yourself further. I just happen to think Mayer sucks at expressing himself. Ben Harper doesnt.

I'm not speaking in general terms here, elliot. I'm talking about the specific case in point. Mayer and Harper.

mbgreen · Unread post by **mbgreen** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:34 pm

gcom007 wrote:it blows my mind how people look at theory like it's a bad thing...look at it this way...let's compare music to words...ben harper's songs are pretty much based off simple chords. there's nothing tough about it. it's the elementary school of guitar work. think about how elementary school students write for a second. as you grow older as a student, you learn more words and more ways to express yourself to the point where you can freely express yourself b/c you're not bound by the knowledge of your mind. it's not like you have to try so hard to find the words to tap into the emotion, they're already there and you can make the best poetry. Think about how that relates to theory...am I making sense? A perfect example of this w/ Mayer is w/ his song 83...the chords he uses and the rhythm very much give it a nostalgic feel which is what he was going for. How was he able to do that? How was he able to paint a clearer and more beautiful picture? Theory! You learn more and you know more how to express yourself in more articulate manners...gosh...I could go on and on w/ this...forced and no emotion...open your ears and your mind while you're at it!

This analogy isnt entirely fair. To play along, writing isnt the only way to express yourself. I happen to like fingerpainting, and think flowery compositions arent near as fun, though they can be much more detailed.

Many of the best artists in all fields never had an ounce of formal training. Sure, it helps out the average Joe like you or me. But there's some people who dont need it to reach people on another level.

Beauford33 · Unread post by **Beauford33** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:57 pm

Wow, a lot of technicall mumbo Jumbo was said, and surprisingly, I got it! I can only amgine the possibilities!:looks at the sky thoughtfully:

dmplayer · Unread post by **dmplayer** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:22 pm

gcom007 wrote:harper's cool, but he's not half the musician mayer is, he writes a good song here and there but it's simple, basic stuff...mayer's got the goods whether you like his lyrics or not.

Mayer may know more about theory, and he might be a better musician, playing wise, but his songs DON'T hold up to Ben Harper's music. Just because Harper's songs are simple doesn't mean that they aren't powerful. His voice and song-writing skills far surpass John Mayer's poppy rubbish. There is hardly ever anything meaningful in a Mayer song, unless you think showing everyone up at the high school reunion is meaningful.

Just because Mayer can kick ass on the guitar doesn't make him a better musician. There has to be substance to the songs, something which Mayer sorely lacks.

dmplayer · Unread post by **dmplayer** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:27 pm

gcom007 wrote:open your ears and your mind while you're at it!

Dude, your blind loyalty to Mayer is apparent. You can't tell people to open their minds when you won't listen to anyone's opinion because you're always in the mindset that Mayer is better than everyone.

Mayer's guitar skills are amazing, but he has a lot of learning to do in the vocal and songwriting departments.

Appfro · Unread post by **Appfro** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:56 pm

dmplayer wrote:
gcom007 wrote:harper's cool, but he's not half the musician mayer is, he writes a good song here and there but it's simple, basic stuff...mayer's got the goods whether you like his lyrics or not.
Mayer may know more about theory, and he might be a better musician, playing wise, but his songs DON'T hold up to Ben Harper's music. Just because Harper's songs are simple doesn't mean that they aren't powerful. His voice and song-writing skills far surpass John Mayer's poppy rubbish. There is hardly ever anything meaningful in a Mayer song, unless you think showing everyone up at the high school reunion is meaningful.

Just because Mayer can kick ass on the guitar doesn't make him a better musician. There has to be substance to the songs, something which Mayer sorely lacks.

i agree 100% you don't have to be a kick ass guitarist and write really complicated stuff to be emotional. matter of fact i would argue that some of the most emotional songs ever are simple guitar 1-4-5 songs. most of the emotional stuff IN TODAY'S MUSIC comes from lyrics.

w/ that said...damn i wish i could write music like mayer. he's got great guitar stuff

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