Scope of Music. ("Good" Musicians)

[Smaegol]

There seems to be a lot of talk on this forum of what "good" musicians are. I understand that most people that play guitar.. and any other instrument for that matter are very egotistical.. I mean, no offense to anyone at all, nothing personal... but you dont have to look past half the messages on this forum to see that. I come to this site because Im a fairly new guitarist, Ive been playing about 2 years now, and I LOVE playing Daves music.. thats the whole reason I took up guitar playing to begin with. So I come to boards like this to help sharpen my skills by listening to others.
However, I noticed one thing that has been missing from all these "what a good musician is" posts. What makes a good musician. What Im saying is.. you could have all the talent in the world, but if your overall product is crap.. then does that make them a good musician cause they can play scales extremely fast and rip up the guitar? I dont think so.
Any one here know who Modest Mouse or Nuetral Milk Hotel is? 2 great bands that arent that talented instrument wise.. I mean thier guitar parts are simple enough, yet Thier songs stick in my head and make me tap my feet and get me going, and thier lyrics get me thinking. So to me.. they are good musicians. I think people get too caught up in just skill playing alone and dont look past that into the artists actual music as a whole. I think it has to do a little bit with the guitar player ego I was talking about earlier. I hear arguments on this board about whether or not Dave Matthews is a good musician or not. Well.. I can tell you that he single handedly changed the way I look at life. So.. yeah.. Id say the guy is a HELL of a musician. Then I hear people say about some songs, whether it be Dave or another band, they say "But that song's lyrics dont have a deep meaning to them, so its crap!" a perfect example is a guy complaining about "What would you say" on here the other day. However.. Doesnt that song make people dance like nuts at shows? Its just a feel good fun song. So it makes it a great song because people get enjoyment out of it. Not because it has some intricate guitar part or a unreal scale progression.
So I guess all Im saying is.. a great musician isnt neccesarily someone who knows the ins and outs of little intricate details and techniques and can play a million miles an hour. Its just a person or persons who's music you can relate to, get something out of intellectually, or just bop your head to, reguardless of the skill level involved.

Thats all.. Just wanted to throw my .02 cents in on the whole subject

[God_Fearing_Man]

it's really tough to say

somebody like Shawn Lane (I think that's how he spells it) is an incredibley fast guitarist.. he's a techincally perfect guitarist, but a good musician? that is debateable.

All you can get is a subjective answer here...

I mean, look at a guy like Kurt Cobain. The guy could play very little besides power chords..

yet I would say he was an incredible musician, despite his lack of talent on the guitar.

You cannot get a difinitive answer on what makes a great musician because every great musician is considered great because of something unique to them.,

[DmbFanJason]

"" However, I noticed one thing that has been missing from all these "what a good musician is" posts. What makes a good musician. What Im saying is.. you could have all the talent in the world, but if your overall product is crap.. then does that make them a good musician cause they can play scales extremely fast and rip up the guitar? I dont think so. ""

This statement right above is the point and statement I have been trying to convey for the last month(good job smaegol!). People really seem to have trouble in this area. Dave is maybe not the best "composer" or "skilled" or "fast" or all the other shit that doesnt really matter. He is the best "valuable final product" musician, which is honestly all that really matters; because once again, what the fuck does theory mean if you can't show application? Not many can touch Dave in that respect. If it wasn't for Dave Matthews I would NOT play the guitar...he changed my life because playing the guitar is pretty much my life . Man music would suck without Dave...well maybe not suck, but I sure as hell wouldnt be too exciting. This is my $100.02.

[madtadder]

yeah, i agree. look at jack johnson. his songs are basically all just barre chords (though he does throw in some kickass fills in between sometimes), but his music is just amazing. same thing with o.a.r., all of their songs are G, C, Am, and F essentially but i still like listening to it. i'll never consider them amazing, but it still gets me dancing.