are we blaming the producers too much?

[cstieff]

I think everyone seems to be putting alot of the blame or credit for albums like stand up and before these crowded streets on the producers but I think the band is mostly to blame.

The producer is writing the lyrics or the guitar to the songs its the band. I think the reason stand up didn't sound like before these crowded streets is because Dave and the rest of the band have changed.

I don't think dave is as emtionally charged as he once was, I don't connect to the lyrics of stand up like i do to his other albums. And look at the way dave's life has changed. He's worth millions, there haven't been any death's in dave's family, he's not married, and he's comped with his drug problems. The lyrics of heartbreak, struggle, and death are gone. Dave's found stability.

I felt most of stand up's insperation came from Bush winning being president. Something that I think is hard to write an emtionally charged song people can relate to about. I mean you know Bush is out of office in at least 8 years thats not like losing a family member or being heartbroken. Its hard to write a song about the status quo. And I think with the lack of emtionaly charged lyrics comes a lack of emtionaly charged playing to back them up.

Hence we get the over produced dry pop like album stand up.

[Elliottman]

I agree with you man, i think Baston took way to much flack for Stand Up. I also put most of the blame on the band.

[Easy E]

Even though Dave's life is stable, he still has the ability to write beautiful emotionally charged songs like "Stay or Leave" As far as the producer, just the style of song crafting that batson uses is different from that of lillywhite. Batson just tried to find hooks in everyone's noodling around, and that can come out as bland. Lillywhite challenged the band a little more, i think

[i am sam2]

yeah im sure dave's well of lyrical genius is running dry, but that doesnt mean the band has dried up to the point where they cant put together good songs. i mean, not one year before writing the stand up album, they created four (in my opinion) great songs joy ride, hello again, sugar will, and crazy easy. and you can even count good good time in there as a fifth. im not sure how long it took to come up with those, but the fact that they are about a year older than the SU songs shows that dmb still has some energy and quality in their songwriting.

[Mikey]

Welcome to the boards

I have to say your points are very valid, especially the paragraph about Dave's life changing. You might be right that songs about death and drugs are now going to be few and far between. However, this leads me to believe there is more inspiration for "happier" songs. Unfortunatly, its been a while since we've seen songs the caliber of "Stay," "Granny," and other DMB lighthearted tracks.

I have to highlight the arguments made on practically every topic on this board discussing the song structure. I am totally for the band experimenting with different song structures. If it was not for this, we certainly wouldn't have the bassline for Crush. However, the majority of the songs from the DMB we grew up with are based on a catchy guitar riff. Even this much-despised Everyday album stayed true to this format for the most part.

Baston, however, took samples of the band playing and looped them. From watching the videos online and the DVD that came with Stand Up, it seems unlikely Dave went up to Baston and said, "Hey Mark, I got this nifty guitar riff right here." It just seems unlikely in the working environment, and the finished product.

Another complaint I have is on the DVD or online videos, I recall Baston asking Dave to go home and right lyrics for "Dreamgirl." I write music, and obvious lack the writing talent that Dave has, but know writing good lyrics doesn't happen overnight. That is the problem with this album, it seems forced and rushed. Baston was a catalyst to this, and overproduced it in an effort to cover up the rushed job.

Your argument that the band has changed is true. However, only a year ago they wrote "Hello Again" "Joy Ride" "Sugar Will" abd "Crazy Easy," four songs that sound as though they could have been cut from an earlier studio session. This is proof they can still write great songs. These songs were either cut or ruined in the studio. Even the b-side "Joy Ride" sounds inferior to the original versions in my opinion. Baston was the reason for this. And even though DMB takes some of the blame for letting Baston do what he did, the producer is ultimately responsible for this disappointing album.

[Kahn]

you can find my viewpoints here:

http://www.dmbtabs.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=23893

[carter29]

Dave's not married? just a girlfriend? she the one with his 2 girls?

[dmbandummer]

Dave's not married? just a girlfriend? she the one with his 2 girls?

Dave is married. Wife's name is Ashley. Twin daughters.

And drugs are still working their way through the studio.
Batson rolled blunts for the band and the fridge was stocked with Mushroom Tea. Gotta get your inspiration somewhere.

[c_tietze]

I think everyone seems to be putting alot of the blame or credit for albums like stand up and before these crowded streets on the producers but I think the band is mostly to blame.

Huh, that's one of their best albums if not a snapshot of DMB at it's peak.

I really believe that these guys are just trying to make their $$$. I mean, to record an album in two weeks, it can be done in less but why not take MORE time?

I don't dislike the writing or the quality of the musicianship, but I don't care for the arrangements and there's one thing that really bugs me and that I feel this album was rushed and a joke in OUR faces.

[c_tietze]

However, DMB is just a band, they're just dudes who play instruments and make songs for a living. Everyone gets bored and wants something new and people's tastes DO change. I'm not going to cry because I think SU sucks, I'm just not listening to it nor going to any shows.

[i am sam2]

I think everyone seems to be putting alot of the blame or credit for albums like stand up and before these crowded streets on the producers but I think the band is mostly to blame.

Huh, that's one of their best albums if not a snapshot of DMB at it's peak.

I really believe that these guys are just trying to make their $$$. I mean, to record an album in two weeks, it can be done in less but why not take MORE time?

I don't dislike the writing or the quality of the musicianship, but I don't care for the arrangements and there's one thing that really bugs me and that I feel this album was rushed and a joke in OUR faces.

he said blame or credit i think you missed that part

and there is no way that album was produced just to make money...these guys play because they love playing not because they need money...and they dont need money...so i dont think its money...but i do believe it was rushed, and i think that was batsons fault

[c_tietze]

I think everyone seems to be putting alot of the blame or credit for albums like stand up and before these crowded streets on the producers but I think the band is mostly to blame.

Huh, that's one of their best albums if not a snapshot of DMB at it's peak.

I really believe that these guys are just trying to make their $$$. I mean, to record an album in two weeks, it can be done in less but why not take MORE time?

I don't dislike the writing or the quality of the musicianship, but I don't care for the arrangements and there's one thing that really bugs me and that I feel this album was rushed and a joke in OUR faces.

he said blame or credit i think you missed that part

and there is no way that album was produced just to make money...these guys play because they love playing not because they need money...and they dont need money...so i dont think its money...but i do believe it was rushed, and i think that was batsons fault

Yup I TOTALLY misread that, and I re-read it to make sure and STILL missed it.

[briguy945]

I think everyone here loves DMB too much to put the blame on them so Batson is used as a scapegoat. Bottom line is if they didin't think SU was good enough to release it would have gone the way of the lillywhite sessions (although I do wish they were released). Lets hope more time and care are put into the next album and the band really wants to spend some time on it.

[Brock]

I blame Batson for not pushing the band and requiring the best out of them (that's the producer's job), I blame the band for actually thinking the album was worthy of publishing.

[jsgksu]

I blame Batson for not pushing the band and requiring the best out of them (that's the producer's job), I blame the band for actually thinking the album was worthy of publishing.

Agreed.

I know you cant put out amazing albums EVERY TIME but all their Lillywhite albums were amazing, and the ones after him have been good/ok/mediocre. Not all bad, not all amazing, and nothing as good as their first 3 majors. Some of that is becaue of the band, some is the producers.