song writing

[gatorz95]

While I have developed several pieces of music that I thought could be worked into a song. I find it difficult to take the big step into lyrics...particularly to do it well so they properly accompany the music. I curious what approaches you all consider successful.

I recall seeing an interview with Dave about song writing. I believe he indicated that he would write down a cool phrase when it popped into his head. He kept them in a notebook and would go back and try to develop them into a verse that may be useful some day.

I also get the impression Dave writes his music and then the words.

[johntherevelator]

here are 3 ways i write music:

1-write lyrics, then try to write something that goes with the harmony of the lyrics
2-write the music, then play it over and over again, getting yourself in the mood of the song and writing that way (pot helps)
3-write both separately, realize they work together, and put them together

hope that helps

[ticohans]

This is from the thread on my music, and instead of typing a bunch of stuff up again, I figured I'd just copy it over.

I've recieved a few questions from people regarding lyrics and licks: specifically how I come up with stuff and what my inspirations are. I personally love good poetry, and spend time reading it. I spend time writing it too, be it for my songs or to stand alone without music. There are a few main things that I try to keep in mind when writing, from a technical side of things. First, I hate really bad and cliche perfect rhyme. Stuff like "I was really sad, Cause she was really bad." With a lot of music, once you hear "sad," you know what's going to come at the end of the next line. That's a really bad example, but I'm sure you know what I mean. I refuse to write stuff like that, and instead use mainly slant rhyme, stuff like "I see all the children laughing/ And how they raise their hands to greet the moring light/ With smiles as fresh as dawn's horizon/ So happy for this new day of life." In that lyric (the first verse for "Strength of a Little Boy") the rhyming words at the end of the lines are "light" and "life." They are not perfect rhymes, but they share that opening "li" sound, which is just enough to suggest a certain familiarity of tone. I also try to use rhyming within lines and alliteration to add continuity to the lines. Finally, I also try to watch the length and rhythm of the lines: they should be smooth and easy, and flow well. Nothing long or choppy or abrasive to the ear, unless you want to do somthing like that, for a specific purpose. That gets in to having the form of your lyrics fit the form of the song. If there's a verse that is very angry and violent, if you can use harsh and percussive sounding words, it will add to the artistry of your work. If you have chorus about the quiet peace of being with someone you love, you want to try and use soft sounding, easy-on-the-ear words. That's all sort of formal consideration. In terms of actually crafting the lyrics, it is always better if you can paint a picture that describes something, as opposed to stating it. My writing teachers have always said things like "show, don't tell." That means, if you're angry about something, show it, describe it, explain it, use imagery and metaphor to illustrate your point. That's always a million times more effective than just saying "I'm mad." Going back to that verse from "Strength of a Little Boy" that I mentioned earlier ("I see all the children laughing/ And how they raise their hands to greet the morning light/ With smiles as fresh as dawn's horizon/ So happy for this new day of life") we can see some of the aforementioned principals at work. For starters, there is an abounding imagery of morning: "greet the morning light," "dawn's horizon," "new day." The continuity of imagery here adds to the potency of the verse. Secondly, I use simile, like "smiles as fresh as dawn's horizon," and I focus on movement: "how they raise their hands." I could have said "I saw children playing early one morning" but that doesn't communicate what I wanted to communicate, even though it describes the same situation.
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[ticohans]

As sort of a follow up, let me reccomend the keeping of a small journal or notebook as Dave does to jot stuff down in. It has DEFINITELY helped me and has saved LOTS of good ideas from the dark, forgetful chasms of my brain. I've got whole notebooks FULL of stuff, and I can always go back to them.

Let me also say that good lyrics are VERY RARELY pure inspiration. Every once in a while, you'll get a verse or a chorus that just flows beautifully and works perfectly, but more often than not, you'll have a good idea or line buried under a heap of crap, and you have to mine out that one good phrase. Good songwriting is a LOT of work. I used to believe that songwriting was all inspiration and in the moment spontenaity, until I found myself able to write good stuff through persperation as well as inspiration. Now, I think that the waiting for inspiration to strike is little more than an excuse for laziness. All good art requires careful craftmanship, as the expression of an idea or emotion through art that is many times ineffable takes great care. All my songs start with an inspirational spark, and sometimes that spark turns into a great fire all on its own, and other times I have to add fuel and kindling, and really work that initial spark into a good flame.

[Levi]

gatorz, I'm in the same boat as you. I can make up a couple of riffs that sound good together but boy do I suck at coming up with lyrics. Every once in awhile I can come up with a neat line or two but nothing ever materializes into a song. Since I have a super-shitty singing voice anyways, it probably doesn't really matter.

Anyways I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon and say to keep a journal where you can write stuff down. My friend who is much more talented than I kept notebooks all throughout high school, sometimes writing down just a couple lines, sometimes laying out whole verses. He says the music is easy to come up with, he usually sticks with an electric and plays NIN kind of stuff and he mixes in keyboards and drum loops and all that. He bangs out songs pretty quick!

I'm assuming you're more interested in writing more Dave-style songs on an accoustic guitar, so it might be a little tougher to come up with music. He says start with writing just a poem, then he comes up with some music, then he sings the lyrics based on how the music sounds. It works for him. So I guess the most important thing is to just write down anything you think of.

[gatorz95]

a lot of good suggestions; thanks for the input

[jseymour_va]

here are 3 ways i write music:

1-write lyrics, then try to write something that goes with the harmony of the lyrics
2-write the music, then play it over and over again, getting yourself in the mood of the song and writing that way (pot helps)
3-write both separately, realize they work together, and put them together

hope that helps

I like step 2