Dave's Goin Back!?!?!?

gcom007 · Unread post by **gcom007** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 3:24 pm

ticohans wrote:For people to question the musicianship of Everyday is just silly, in my opinion. The album is absolutely MASTERFUL, perhaps more so than any other. Now, it's fine to debate how it is that such musicianship was acheived, and I have no problems with people who don't like it because the album is not as improvisitory. But you cannot intelligently question the virtuosity of the music or writing. The parts blended absolutely seamlessly, in beautiful fashion, floating through modulations and tempo shifts effortlessly. One of the things that I most appreciated about the album was the diminished role of Boyd. While the guy is a great entertainer, he is NOT a great violinist. He's able to groove with the band, and that's well and all, but he is easily the worst musician of the lot. I can't tell you the number of times I've listened to a song that Boyd "goes off" on and wondered, why is he playing? He is at his best when acting as filler and rhythm. Boyd is not a "lead" violinist, and Baird made sure Boyd was used where he serves the band best.

I agree in a lot of ways...especially on Boyd...the guy is just a joke...they should've gotten rid of him years ago. I know multiple people who can play circles around him...he is at times unbearable to listen to live...it's just horrid...so so so off key...

ticohans · Unread post by **ticohans** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 3:30 pm

firedancer, I agree that the violin plays an important part in DMB's music, but it is a sideshow when compared to Dave's guitar and voice, Leroi's wind ensemble, Carter's phenomenal percussion, and Stefan's amazing bass lines.

I also have to agree with what Dave said about how people shouldn't judge their "sound" or "style." I do a LOT of songwriting myself and have a fairly good shot (if such a thing exists) at making a living by it. I know that it would frustrate me to no end if people started complaining that, because I do something new, all of a sudden I "sell out" or "abandon" what my music is all about. For the skilful and passionate musician, there is nothing more frustrating than remaining static. I want to develop my sound. I want to branch into new areas. I want to master and include new styles. I have a great amount of respect for bands that are able to remake themselves with each album. There is a difference between moving into new sonic areas and selling out, and Dave is no where near selling out on Everyday. And at the core of the album, Everyday is completey a Dave Matthews album. The main musical ideas that make Dave who he is as a musician are all still there, developed and elaborated in brilliant fashion, just like his other albums.

ticohans · Unread post by **ticohans** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 3:32 pm

gcom007 wrote:
ticohans wrote:For people to question the musicianship of Everyday is just silly, in my opinion. The album is absolutely MASTERFUL, perhaps more so than any other. Now, it's fine to debate how it is that such musicianship was acheived, and I have no problems with people who don't like it because the album is not as improvisitory. But you cannot intelligently question the virtuosity of the music or writing. The parts blended absolutely seamlessly, in beautiful fashion, floating through modulations and tempo shifts effortlessly. One of the things that I most appreciated about the album was the diminished role of Boyd. While the guy is a great entertainer, he is NOT a great violinist. He's able to groove with the band, and that's well and all, but he is easily the worst musician of the lot. I can't tell you the number of times I've listened to a song that Boyd "goes off" on and wondered, why is he playing? He is at his best when acting as filler and rhythm. Boyd is not a "lead" violinist, and Baird made sure Boyd was used where he serves the band best.
I agree in a lot of ways...especially on Boyd...the guy is just a joke...they should've gotten rid of him years ago. I know multiple people who can play circles around him...he is at times unbearable to listen to live...it's just horrid...so so so off key...

My brother plays violin and has done so since he was six. He's never really tried improv stuff, but I would bet my left nut that within a month of trying improv stuff, he'd be able to do what Boyd does with his feet. And, while my brother is an amazing violinist, he's nowhere near the best of the violin players that I am close to.

gcom007 · Unread post by **gcom007** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:56 pm

ticohans wrote:
gcom007 wrote:
ticohans wrote: I agree in a lot of ways...especially on Boyd...the guy is just a joke...they should've gotten rid of him years ago. I know multiple people who can play circles around him...he is at times unbearable to listen to live...it's just horrid...so so so off key...
My brother plays violin and has done so since he was six. He's never really tried improv stuff, but I would bet my left nut that within a month of trying improv stuff, he'd be able to do what Boyd does with his feet. And, while my brother is an amazing violinist, he's nowhere near the best of the violin players that I am close to.

the sad thing is that there are a lot of people who will call you crazy for saying that...

crimsonPhantom · Unread post by **crimsonPhantom** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 5:01 pm

gcom007 wrote: the sad thing is that there are a lot of people who will call you crazy for saying that...

i won't

waffle_house_jam · Unread post by **waffle_house_jam** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 5:28 pm

ticohans wrote:firedancer, I agree that the violin plays an important part in DMB's music, but it is a sideshow when compared to Dave's guitar and voice, Leroi's wind ensemble, Carter's phenomenal percussion, and Stefan's amazing bass lines.

I also have to agree with what Dave said about how people shouldn't judge their "sound" or "style." I do a LOT of songwriting myself and have a fairly good shot (if such a thing exists) at making a living by it. I know that it would frustrate me to no end if people started complaining that, because I do something new, all of a sudden I "sell out" or "abandon" what my music is all about. For the skilful and passionate musician, there is nothing more frustrating than remaining static. I want to develop my sound. I want to branch into new areas. I want to master and include new styles. I have a great amount of respect for bands that are able to remake themselves with each album. There is a difference between moving into new sonic areas and selling out, and Dave is no where near selling out on Everyday. And at the core of the album, Everyday is completey a Dave Matthews album. The main musical ideas that make Dave who he is as a musician are all still there, developed and elaborated in brilliant fashion, just like his other albums.

i really have to disagree with you... boyd's parts have been really central in the band's sound. although he might not be the most talented violin player they might have gotten, when i listen to the clinical pop style DMB that's been going down recently i feel like something is missing. one of the things that im missing is boyd's part in the band. if you guys want him out, it really seems like you got your wish. in my opinion, unless something big goes down (and lets all hope for it), DMB's sound is gone forever....
RIP

MattyTrane · Unread post by **MattyTrane** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:08 pm

thats a bold statement 8)

DmbFanJason · Unread post by **DmbFanJason** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:42 pm

Ticohans, man I guess you should run the Dave Matthews Band...obviously, you think you know a whole lot more about music than dave and the rest of the band...the band without boyd??...you must have a dick in your ass......It just shows how much to know about music when you think everyday was one of their best albums. Yea that was one of their best albums when that new fag manager wrote every song for the band...that album sucked man, and I am sick of people defending it especially because the band didnt even fuckin write those songs...OK, so the band had space between on the top of the charts...does that make it good?, big fuckin deal...I guess you like nsync too..You think they would be selling out at venues like Madison Square Garden off of that album??...man, you must have a dick in your mouth... I despise the songs from that album when they play it in concert, and i know deep down you would rather hear Two Step than fuckin I Did It or Sleep to Dream Her. Stop lieing to yourself and just admit that everyday sucked compared to the rest of the albums. Get some balls queer, its people like you thats gonna make dave extinct by playing those wretched songs that poison the concerts.

Chumpnet · Unread post by **Chumpnet** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:45 pm

gcom007 wrote:
ticohans wrote:For people to question the musicianship of Everyday is just silly, in my opinion. The album is absolutely MASTERFUL, perhaps more so than any other. Now, it's fine to debate how it is that such musicianship was acheived, and I have no problems with people who don't like it because the album is not as improvisitory. But you cannot intelligently question the virtuosity of the music or writing. The parts blended absolutely seamlessly, in beautiful fashion, floating through modulations and tempo shifts effortlessly. One of the things that I most appreciated about the album was the diminished role of Boyd. While the guy is a great entertainer, he is NOT a great violinist. He's able to groove with the band, and that's well and all, but he is easily the worst musician of the lot. I can't tell you the number of times I've listened to a song that Boyd "goes off" on and wondered, why is he playing? He is at his best when acting as filler and rhythm. Boyd is not a "lead" violinist, and Baird made sure Boyd was used where he serves the band best.
I agree in a lot of ways...especially on Boyd...the guy is just a joke...they should've gotten rid of him years ago. I know multiple people who can play circles around him...he is at times unbearable to listen to live...it's just horrid...so so so off key...

Although I respect your opinion of Boyd's musicianship, saying that the band should have gotten rid of him is going too far. Before we get too caught up on what makes a better musician and who can plan an instrument better, remember that DMB is a close-knit band formed as a group of friends who respect each others' abilities. It doesn't matter if there are better violinists out there, they probably haven't played at Miller's in front of Dave, Carter, and Leroi.

When producers worry more about the sound output than the family dynamics is when you get an album like Everyday. I'm in the camp where Everyday is my least favorite DMB album and my favorites are BTCS and BS where coincedentally there is "no" Boyd in the former and lots o Boyd in the latter. Yes, that violin may sound strange at times but to me that's still DMB and not some throwaway sound.

DMB would lose a lot of credibility to me if they replaced Boyd with any ol shmo virtuoso even if the new albums sound better than BTCS.

gravedigger · Unread post by **gravedigger** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 6:55 pm

DmbFanJason wrote:Ticohans, man I guess you should run the Dave Matthews Band...obviously, you think you know a whole lot more about music than dave and the rest of the band...the band without boyd??...you must have a dick in your ass......It just shows how much to know about music when you think everyday was one of their best albums. Yea that was one of their best albums when that new fag manager wrote every song for the band...that album sucked man, and I am sick of people defending it especially because the band didnt even fuckin write those songs...OK, so the band had space between on the top of the charts...does that make it good?, big fuckin deal...I guess you like nsync too..You think they would be selling out at venues like Madison Square Garden off of that album??...man, you must have a dick in your mouth... I despise the songs from that album when they play it in concert, and i know deep down you would rather hear Two Step than fuckin I Did It or Sleep to Dream Her. Stop lieing to yourself and just admit that everyday sucked compared to the rest of the albums. Get some balls queer, its people like you thats gonna make dave extinct by playing those wretched songs that poison the concerts.

I wish I could hear this in person, man. I'd be on the floor laughing

not that's by any means wrong, but that it comes across funny.

ticohans · Unread post by **ticohans** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:03 pm

Chumpnet, I'm not saying Boyd should be dropped, I'm saying he was used where he belongs, in my opinion, on Everyday. But I agree that part of the DMB sound involves the violin, and I'd be sad to see it go. I know that I'd much rather hear Mr. Moore solo on the sax or flute or whatever wind instrument he feels like playing for the day. Like I said earlier, Boyd's skills limit what he can do. You don't have a five year old play the Pathetique Sonata by Beethoven. Nor do you have someone who's only played violin for a few months at first chair in a symphony orchestra.

And, like gcom said, when Boyd plays out of tune, it kills everything.

But I'm not about to say he should be dropped. Boyd is GREAT for filler, not for lead.

ticohans · Unread post by **ticohans** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:18 pm

DmbFanJason wrote:Ticohans, man I guess you should run the Dave Matthews Band...obviously, you think you know a whole lot more about music than dave and the rest of the band...the band without boyd??...you must have a dick in your ass......It just shows how much to know about music when you think everyday was one of their best albums. Yea that was one of their best albums when that new fag manager wrote every song for the band...that album sucked man, and I am sick of people defending it especially because the band didnt even fuckin write those songs...OK, so the band had space between on the top of the charts...does that make it good?, big fuckin deal...I guess you like nsync too..You think they would be selling out at venues like Madison Square Garden off of that album??...man, you must have a dick in your mouth... I despise the songs from that album when they play it in concert, and i know deep down you would rather hear Two Step than fuckin I Did It or Sleep to Dream Her. Stop lieing to yourself and just admit that everyday sucked compared to the rest of the albums. Get some balls queer, its people like you thats gonna make dave extinct by playing those wretched songs that poison the concerts.

I'm not going to bother much with this. If you'd like to have an intelligent discussion, by all means let's do so. But if you're just going to throw dirt around and pretend you're actually saying something important, I don't need to waste my time with that.

Baird did NOT write all of the songs on Everyday. He worked with Dave. To say anything different is totally false.

As I posted two seconds ago, not once have I called for the band to drop Boyd. That was gcom. I said I appreciated the reduced role he had in Everyday. If you're going to argue with me, at least read what I say and don't put words into my mouth.

You say "It shows just how much you know about music when you say Everyday was one of their best albums." Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I've played classical piano since I was four, and could go into a career as a concert pianist if I wanted to. I taught myself the guitar and have played since I was twelve. I also play the bass, trumpet, drums, and can fiddle around with many other brass instruments. I am majoring in music at Davidson College, one of the top liberal arts schools in the country. I was accepted at Berkeley and NYU for music stuff, but decided to attend Davidson instead as I wanted a more complete education. I have gone through years of theory and composition, and have been writing stuff since I was twelve. I sing tenor in the best choirs on campus, and will be going on tour with them this winter along the East Coast. So, as you can see, you make all sorts of great assumptions about my musical background. Next time, think and try to get a little information on a person before you lambast them for no apparent reason. You only expose your own foolishness.

I could care less that Space Between was a chart topper. The bilboard charts mean nothing to me; I don't know when the last time I listened to the radio was. Wait, I lie, I do listen to NPR every once in a while, and occasionally will check out my college's station, but that's it.

There is no one alive who has a greater dislike for NSync and their type than me. But even if I did like them, what grounds does that give you to insult me? You think you can make judgements about my person because of the type of music I listen to? And you can determine my sexuality by it, too? While you're attempting to insult the conformity of popular culture, you show that you participate in it as much as anyone by making judgements about me by something as silly as an invented infatuation with NSync.

Ease up man, this started as a friendly conversation where people were expressing their opinions in a civilized manner. If you don't like what I say, let me give you an idea. You see that thin little blue bar over to the right side of your screen? It's called a scroll bar. You can use it to move the web page you're looking at up and down. Just press the little arrows, it works really well. You can use that to scroll by my posts if they anger you so much.

Chumpnet · Unread post by **Chumpnet** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:18 pm

ticohans,
Yeah, you didn't mention anything about dropping Boyd, my reply about that point was directed to gcom's reply to your post.

But I'll add that I've never really had that much of a problem with Boyd's playing but I haven't heard a lot of live stuff. I'm content with the albums and Boyd does a great job on those, imo. But after I get a new HD I'm gonna have to grab a bunch of SHNs from Ants marching to make up for missing out.

DmbFanJason · Unread post by **DmbFanJason** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:28 pm

ok...I have a phd in bio-physics, went to berkely for 2 years, have played the guitar for 8 years(since i started whackin off), play the piano, flute, saxophone, drums, violin and bass. have gotten standind ovations numerous times, and have a 9 inch cock...anything else?
ticohans, what the hell does that mean anyway? i hope that isnt your name boy. step off chump.

gravedigger · Unread post by **gravedigger** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:31 pm

DmbFanJason wrote:ok...I have a phd in bio-physics, went to berkely for 2 years, have played the guitar for 8 years(since i started whackin off), play the piano, flute, saxophone, drums, violin and bass. have gotten standind ovations numerous times, and have a 9 inch cock...anything else?
ticohans, what the hell does that mean anyway? i hope that isnt your name boy. step off chump.

once again: :lol:

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