I'm not trying to pick a fight....

[i like tictacs]

dmb is a jam band...sorry, but they are. they need to act like one.

WHAT?

[Appfro]

But this is going to anyway.

For all of you who hate or do not like Everyday, Busted Stuff, and Stand Up. Its called evolution, or maturing. I mean do you really want to hear the exact same style over and over again. Part of being an artists is maturing, evolving your style. They are growing up, have you. Get over your "burn batson at the cross" rants, get over your "stand up sucks" rants. Its called respect. If you have any respect for a musician you'll respect their work. You don't have to love it, but you have to give them a little love for being such a successful band after all these years.

Love it or leave it.

agreed for the most part.

you seriously think we should just respect the album in it's mediocracy? we're not allowed to own up when something isn't as good as it's supposed to be or should be?

and about the jam band...yes, they are a jam band, this song starts here and ends at 3:30 seconds is BS. jam out, show off your musicianship. if the album were more like the concert then people could have gotten over the fact that the lyrics are terrible. either that, or write better lyrics.

[i like tictacs]

dmb is not a fucking jam band.

[Appfro]

um...ok. except that...yea they are. they are a jam band that just so happens to be good at lyrics. you don't play 21 min versions of songs w/o being a jam band. there are other jam bands that are MORE of jam bands than dmb, phish, greatful dead etc, but dmb is a jam band. it's why they are number 1 live and not on the album. they are better when they let go and just play.

[i like tictacs]

those 21 minute songs NEVER CHANGE. for the most part, a two step is a two step is a two step unless there is a guest. a jimi thing is a jimi thing. listen to phish. they are a jamband. listen to the flecktones. they jam and change the song. DMB keeps the same structure, same guitar, same bass and same drums for 20 minutes and butch solos over it. that does not equal jam band.

[Appfro]

so they have to change the song everytime they play it. wow, i didn't know that about jam bands. i stand corrected

see i thought a jam band was a band that played their song, and then kept playing it after it was supposed to be over and did a lot of improv solos. my bad.

[i am sam2]

yeah mike is right about the jam band stuff....but i would like to hear them just make something up on the spot and really jam it, not just solo over dave.

[dmfollower]

But this is going to anyway.

For all of you who hate or do not like Everyday, Busted Stuff, and Stand Up. Its called evolution, or maturing. I mean do you really want to hear the exact same style over and over again. Part of being an artists is maturing, evolving your style. They are growing up, have you. Get over your "burn batson at the cross" rants, get over your "stand up sucks" rants. Its called respect. If you have any respect for a musician you'll respect their work. You don't have to love it, but you have to give them a little love for being such a successful band after all these years.

Love it or leave it.

agreed.

[acusticdude]

those 21 minute songs NEVER CHANGE. for the most part, a two step is a two step is a two step unless there is a guest. a jimi thing is a jimi thing. listen to phish. they are a jamband. listen to the flecktones. they jam and change the song. DMB keeps the same structure, same guitar, same bass and same drums for 20 minutes and butch solos over it. that does not equal jam band.

actually, phish plays the core song pretty much the same way all the time as well. They jam in between songs and let the songs take on a misical life of their own...... Mostly Phish, and the dead for that matter, play the songs the same and jam on the seques.

Personally I consider a jam band any band that is open to play whatever..... that doesn't care how their stupid looking hair and leather jackets look as they are cranking out power chords the exact same way as it was on the cd

[i like tictacs]

those 21 minute songs NEVER CHANGE. for the most part, a two step is a two step is a two step unless there is a guest. a jimi thing is a jimi thing. listen to phish. they are a jamband. listen to the flecktones. they jam and change the song. DMB keeps the same structure, same guitar, same bass and same drums for 20 minutes and butch solos over it. that does not equal jam band.

actually, phish plays the core song pretty much the same way all the time as well. They jam in between songs and let the songs take on a misical life of their own...... Mostly Phish, and the dead for that matter, play the songs the same and jam on the seques.

uh mikes song? wolfmans brother? slave to the traffic light?


and exacty...jamming the 'seques' (sic) is changing the structures entirely.

[jellyfish]

SU is not maturing, it is a step back musically. Pressing the record button while Boyd is warming up and then basing a whole song around one line that you loop the hell out of is no way for this band to make music. They are too talented for that. They had good ideas before they went into the studio and instead they tried something new and it didn't really work out. So of course we can respect them for trying something different, but I'm not going to sit back and accept this band half assing it in the studio which is exactly what they did with SU. Bottom line is they are not trying their hardest and quite frankly I'm getting sick of Dave talking about how easy the past couple albums have been and how it is not like work at all. Hey Dave, would it kill you to bust your ass for a measly 3 months every two years and actually make complex music again.

Are you kidding me? Thats how 90% of songs originate.

[Nitro1515]

SU is not maturing, it is a step back musically. Pressing the record button while Boyd is warming up and then basing a whole song around one line that you loop the hell out of is no way for this band to make music. They are too talented for that. They had good ideas before they went into the studio and instead they tried something new and it didn't really work out. So of course we can respect them for trying something different, but I'm not going to sit back and accept this band half assing it in the studio which is exactly what they did with SU. Bottom line is they are not trying their hardest and quite frankly I'm getting sick of Dave talking about how easy the past couple albums have been and how it is not like work at all. Hey Dave, would it kill you to bust your ass for a measly 3 months every two years and actually make complex music again.

Are you kidding me? Thats how 90% of songs originate.

Not for this band they don't. If you read any of the interviews about the sessions you would know they have never worked like that before, usually each member would have a more well thoughtout idea they had been working on at home and then bring it into the studio. SU was more improvisational.

[jellyfish]

SU is not maturing, it is a step back musically. Pressing the record button while Boyd is warming up and then basing a whole song around one line that you loop the hell out of is no way for this band to make music. They are too talented for that. They had good ideas before they went into the studio and instead they tried something new and it didn't really work out. So of course we can respect them for trying something different, but I'm not going to sit back and accept this band half assing it in the studio which is exactly what they did with SU. Bottom line is they are not trying their hardest and quite frankly I'm getting sick of Dave talking about how easy the past couple albums have been and how it is not like work at all. Hey Dave, would it kill you to bust your ass for a measly 3 months every two years and actually make complex music again.

Are you kidding me? Thats how 90% of songs originate.

Not for this band they don't. If you read any of the interviews about the sessions you would know they have never worked like that before, usually each member would have a more well thoughtout idea they had been working on at home and then bring it into the studio. SU was more improvisational.

I thought you meant all bands. I missed "this", but yeas it is a way to make music. I think AB is probably the best song on the album... & like some say, It's not the Nitro Matthews Band, It's not the DMBtabs Band, It's the Dave Matthews Band.

Perhaps you enjoy the way they worked earlier because better songs came from those sessions. But what you have to realize is that DMB might NOT enjoy playing & recording the way they played for 10 years. They obviously like the way Batson produces which leads into my next point.
The greatest IRONY of all amongst whoever says they HATE Batson. DMB hired him again, therefore you should hate DMB. Doesn't that make sense?

[acusticdude]

those 21 minute songs NEVER CHANGE. for the most part, a two step is a two step is a two step unless there is a guest. a jimi thing is a jimi thing. listen to phish. they are a jamband. listen to the flecktones. they jam and change the song. DMB keeps the same structure, same guitar, same bass and same drums for 20 minutes and butch solos over it. that does not equal jam band.

actually, phish plays the core song pretty much the same way all the time as well. They jam in between songs and let the songs take on a misical life of their own...... Mostly Phish, and the dead for that matter, play the songs the same and jam on the seques.

uh mikes song? wolfmans brother? slave to the traffic light?


and exacty...jamming the 'seques' (sic) is changing the structures entirely.

I just don't see your side. I have to agree that wolfman changed drastically in '97, but to me, once they get into the song, it sounds pretty much the same. the lyrics usually only change if they forget them. In my opinion. Granted I am probably not dissecting the songs down as much as you. Also, how does jamming a seque change a songs structure entirely? For instance, the popular HYHU seque does not change the way they play farmhouse. The beginning may change a little in the transition.... and the outro will be jammed by all but the core of the song is still the familiar farmhouse. Please don't think I am trying to say Phish is not a "jam band". They absolutely are. And I do agree they were much more jammy than DMB. However, I feel that DMB is still a member of the jam band family. They do NOT play the songs the same way all the time, and they never sound exactly like the album version. They are not afraid to try out new things in front of an audience, and they keep the music fresh by changing things subtly. This is why I love DMB. Right when you think you have them pegged, they do something different. To me, a jam band is as much an attitude as a sound.

[Appfro]

yeah mike is right about the jam band stuff....but i would like to hear them just make something up on the spot and really jam it, not just solo over dave.

but the issue isn't what you would like for them to do or what you'd rather them to do. it's rather or not they should be considered a jam band. what you and mike are basically saying is because you would rather them change their songs up...their jams at the end of the song, because you'd rather them go different directions each time, that dmb cannot be considered a jam band? well, IF they aren't considered a jam band i'm gonna need a better argument than that.