Steve Vai and Dave Matthews performing together.

[DropD-MB]

TIM is a great guitarist..But many people out there including Steve Vai blow him out of the water.

[Willin]

TIM is a great guitarist..But many people out there including Steve Vai blow him out of the water.

..

Correct.

[Cor]

Steve Vai is a human encyclopedia of scales and modes...and is very lifeless when he plays, at least in videos Ive seen. Yes, Tim is a sloppy player at times, but when you are as good as Tim is, sloppy is almost a style. I mean, really good guitarists play sloppy on songs when the song calls for it. Look at Tim on SMTS at the D&T show from 12/12/93, sloppy slide playing, but it works. Apart from that, knowing how much of Tim's playing with Dave and DMB is improv, who gives a shit if it's sloppy, I couldn't get up and play that shit off the top of my head.

Tim's playing has feeling behind it, and he is a master of any style of guitar. Vai and Dave playing together is obviously just a one time thing, though knowing Dave and his collaborative past, I wouldn't be surprised if Vai showed up on a DMB album, or if they did something else together in the future.


Tim rocks.


Adam

Keep in mind in this post, I'm not a huge Vai fan myself.

I think a common misconception is that if a person has a load of musical theory knowledge (The "scales and modes" you mention), they are labeled "lifeless", or as others say "they play with no feeling". I think that's BS. Just because you know the technical side of playing doesn't mean you are "lifeless". I actually think it shows dedication and discipline. Keep in mind, I am not a huge Vai fan myself.

I personally do give a shit if improv is sloppy. What's the point if you can't get your improv across clearly? I can slop through a solo as well..does that make me as good as Tim? I think Stream has no feeling behind it. It sounds like a sloppy-ass show off tune.

Again, I haven't heard too much of Tim, but I have heard a few DMB shows with him, and heard some D&T.

Cory

[GuitarGuy305]

I don't doubt that Vai is as skilled, if not more so than Tim, at playing fast. But being a great guitar player is more than playing fast. In the vids I've seen of Vai, Malmsteen, and the other "shredders", they just appear to be running through exercises, scales and modes when they're "shredding" and it's the same with a lot of their recordings, that's what I mean by lifeless. Tim with DMB and D&T is not a good showcase of Tim's talent. He's a great addition to the DMB mix, and adds a lot to what would otherwise be Dave solo songs with D&T, but I've seen Tim solo acoustic shows, and I just get more from it as far as feeling goes, that I don't get from those shredders. There isn't really a lot of Tim's stuff that is just full out speed guitar. He adds a lot of that into songs like Tripping Billies when he plays with Dave, but playing ultra fast is not a huge part of Tim's solo works. Any guitar player can learn to play fast if they are dedicated and disciplined enough. That's what I mean by lifeless.

Vai and Malmsteen and others like them are far more talented and educated and disciplined on the guitar than most people.

Now what I would really like to hear is Steve Vai and Tim Reynolds do an album together.

I really don't think Tim is sloppy overall. When he is, it works for the mood of the song.

Adam

[Macht]

ther'es also a different between playing music, and playing notes, Tim plays music

'nuff said

[Willin]

ther'es also a different between playing music, and playing notes, Tim plays music

'nuff said

That's a ludicrous comment. Vai has played so many excellent, song enhancing solos that they are too numerous to count. Try out the solo he played for the song called "Ladies night in Buffalo" with David Lee Roth. It's amazing. If you can't feel the inspiration behind that solo, then you just don't understand Vai, I suppose. Vai's performance with Nelly Furtado at the Grammy's was also breathtaking, if you can find that. He is not a heartless shredder. In my opinion, he is an excellent expressive, emotional guitarist.

[Macht]

ther'es also a different between playing music, and playing notes, Tim plays music

'nuff said

That's a ludicrous comment. Vai has played so many excellent, song enhancing solos that they are too numerous to count. Try out the solo he played for the song called "Ladies night in Buffalo" with David Lee Roth. It's amazing. If you can't feel the inspiration behind that solo, then you just don't understand Vai, I suppose. Vai's performance with Nelly Furtado at the Grammy's was also breathtaking, if you can find that. He is not a heartless shredder. In my opinion, he is an excellent expressive, emotional guitarist.

take Kundalini Bonfire, that song is just awesome. Total soul and spirit were put into that. If you can't find a 7+ minute version of the song, i feel for you, i really do. and take chatterbox, i literally yelled oh shit! when i heard it. It's just a total.. free spirit

[Seek Up9803]

Willin, that's your opinion, and thats cool with me. I dont care how good Vai is and how much he knows and how many solos he's done... he's still not Tim. Tim = AWESOME!

[Willin]

Willin, that's your opinion, and thats cool with me. I dont care how good Vai is and how much he knows and how many solos he's done... he's still not Tim. Tim = AWESOME!

I'm not insinuating that one player is better than the other. They have their own distinct styles and I like them both. Although, to discount Vai's playing as being heartless is just crazy. He puts a ton of soul into his songs, they just sound different from Tim Reynolds or Carlos Santana, etc. Granted it's an "awkward" sounding style and I could understand how someone wouldn't dig it, but it's *definetly* not heartless. In my opinion... heh

[GuitarGuy305]

I'm not insinuating that one player is better than the other. They have their own distinct styles and I like them both. Although, to discount Vai's playing as being heartless is just crazy. He puts a ton of soul into his songs, they just sound different from Tim Reynolds or Carlos Santana, etc. Granted it's an "awkward" sounding style and I could understand how someone wouldn't dig it, but it's *definetly* not heartless. In my opinion... heh

Very well put. This thread is making me want to check out some more Vai, which will perhaps make me rethink my opinion on the man and his playing.



Adam

[Willin]

Try out his songs "Tender Surrender," and "For The Love of God," as starters.

[i like tictacs]

Stop swinging from Tim's nuts people. Jesus Christ...just because he has played with Dave doesn't make him the best ever. If it was Vai who guested with Dave on red rocks, and all the other times Tim played with dave, I'm sure you'd swing from his nuts too.

Tim isn't a god of improvisation...what he does isn't the most difficult thing...learn a thing or two about theory. Yes it is very tasteful...then again he's been playing/played with dave for years and he knows what is good.

the elitism here is just rubbing me the wrong way

[bngholio14]

Stop swinging from Tim's nuts people. Jesus Christ...just because he has played with Dave doesn't make him the best ever. If it was Vai who guested with Dave on red rocks, and all the other times Tim played with dave, I'm sure you'd swing from his nuts too.

Tim isn't a god of improvisation...what he does isn't the most difficult thing...learn a thing or two about theory. Yes it is very tasteful...then again he's been playing/played with dave for years and he knows what is good.

the elitism here is just rubbing me the wrong way

Oh then by all means play some Tim Reynolds music if it isnt difficult. I guess if we all learn a little bit of theory, we'll be shredding exactly like Tim...

On that token you could say stop swinging on Stefans nuts. You must only like him cause he plays with Dave. Same with Wooten, you must only like him cause he guested with Dave. Im sure if Mark Hoppus guested, you would swing on his nuts. Anyway why can't people like Tim better than they do with Vai without them being called elitist? Personally I don't like Vai, and yes I have heard lots of his music. He is a fantastic player, but I dont like his music. As well Tim and Dave mesh perfectly, moreso than any other guitarist that has guested/played with him, IMO.

[i like tictacs]

If you think I like wooten because he guested with DMB...I don't even know what to say. I'm just going to shake my head. Tim is very very tasteful. And to say I only like him because he plays with dave is just contradicting yourself if you like tim at all...because he plays with dave. I wholeheartedly believe none of us would be into tim reynolds like we are had he not played with dave/dmb.

[bngholio14]

If you think I like wooten because he guested with DMB...I don't even know what to say. I'm just going to shake my head. Tim is very very tasteful. And to say I only like him because he plays with dave is just contradicting yourself if you like tim at all...because he plays with dave. I wholeheartedly believe none of us would be into tim reynolds like we are had he not played with dave/dmb.

Im not contradicting myself. What I got is that you think most everyone likes Tim only cause of Dave. You said everyone would love Vai if he played with Dave instead of Tim. And I was poitning out that would be like saying you only like Wooten becasue of Dave, which you obviously don't. There are tons of Tim fans that like him because of his own work, and not with Dave. Hell alot of them don't really like Dave at all. And just because they think Dave and Vai wont be as good as D&T, it doesnt make them idiots, or elitist.