Problems with mic recording

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TheGuyThatJaneLikes
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Problems with mic recording

Unread post by TheGuyThatJaneLikes » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:49 am

Hey, everyone, I'm new to home recording, so please bear with me.

I went out today and bought a Shure SM-57 mic and an adapter so I could plug it into the mic port on my soundcard. My guitar doesn't have a pick up, so I'm just recording with the most basic of methods - playing next to the mic (about 2 feet away with the mic angled about 90 degress straight ahead pointed at the 12-14th fret).

My problem is that everything I record comes out at low volume and with horrible static. Whenever I boost the volume, obviously it makes the static worse.

I record with Nero Wave Editor (Windows default sound recorder doesn't even pick anything up) and then I use Audcaity's noise removal feature. However, this takes away the tone of the guitar (not that there was much to begin with in the original recording) and even at the lowest settings, it leaves the guitar sounding muddy with some wierd scratching sounds in the background that sound vaguely like an alien landing. :lol:

I'm not going for any professional sound quality, obviously, but these results do not seem right to me. Can anyone give me any suggestions? Could it be a mic issue (it's a used rental that I bought)?


Thanks.

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sunglassesatnight
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Unread post by sunglassesatnight » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:09 am

A couple of things are going on here.

First, the SM57 needs a TON of gain, which is more or less volume boosted before the signal hits the final record point. That's just the way this mic is, no getting around it. It's just not super-sensitive.

Second, you probably have a sound card to which you have to run a little 1/8" input, like a headphone plug, right? And it's probably the stock card that came with the computer. Because it's not designed for this type of recording--and is pretty much unsuitable for any microphone input at all--it has a very high noise floor. The card and not the mic is more than likely the source of the fuzz.

Now as for the noise removal, it's going to be VERY touchy. I've found even higher quality removal plug-ins to be effective only on the noise and not distort the instrumentation at extremely low levels. NR is dangerous. People very often get over-zealous and end up with that nasty, alien landing sounding thing.

Some things that can help the problem.

First, you need something to get you some gain to drown out the noise floor. A mic preamp or a mixer should do this. Here's a link to some single-channel mic pres, any of which should do the job you need. http://www.sweetwater.com/c662--Single_ ... s/low2high
Two things about those. First you'll need at least one more cable, because they either use XLR (Microphone) or 1/4" (Guitar cable type) inputs, so you need one cable to go Mic>Pre and one to go Pre>Sound card. Both of these cables are easily and cheaply available at any music store.
Second, DO NOT, under any circumstances turn on "Phantom Power" on the mic pre with the SM57. This is a dynamic microphone and does not need and will not handle any sort of electricity being sent to it.

The second thing I'd recommend doing is getting a new sound card, like the M-Audio Audiophile 2496, which has very good analog inputs.

Or, instead of the pre and the card, you can go with a USB or Firewire interface, which will do the job of both in one box. If you have the cash, this is the option I'd recommend, considering it fully bypasses what is likely the noisiest part of your chain and you get everything in one unit, and it's probably more cost-effective. The caveat about Phantom Power still remains. Absolutely make sure it's off as long as you are using this mic.

USB Interfaces: http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Aud ... s/low2high

Firewire Interfaces: http://www.sweetwater.com/c683--FireWir ... s/low2high

Feel free to ask any questions you might have. Good luck.

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TheGuyThatJaneLikes
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Unread post by TheGuyThatJaneLikes » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:28 am

Thanks, man, very helpful. :)

So, if I undertstand this right, instead of getting the pre and a new sound card (I'm currently using a nVidia nForce onboard card), I can just get a USB interface and that should do the trick?

If this is the case, can you recommend a USB interface? I looked at the link and couldn't really decide myself. :oops: At this point, the cheaper the better.


Thanks again.

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sunglassesatnight
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Unread post by sunglassesatnight » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:45 am

Probably the best you'll do under $100 (though just barely).

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FastTrackUSB/

Anyone else feel free to chime in, I might be missing something.

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Unread post by Kahn » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:54 am

I have the M Audio interface and love it.

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Unread post by sfmartins » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:08 pm

Kahn wrote:I have the M Audio interface and love it.
Yeah, I've always heard good things about M Audio interfaces...

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Unread post by 6_strings_for_life » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:24 pm

SimsUK wrote:
First, you need something to get you some gain to drown out the noise floor. A mic preamp or a mixer should do this. Here's a link to some single-channel mic pres, any of which should do the job you need. http://www.sweetwater.com/c662--Single_ ... s/low2high
Two things about those. First you'll need at least one more cable, because they either use XLR (Microphone) or 1/4" (Guitar cable type) inputs, so you need one cable to go Mic>Pre and one to go Pre>Sound card. Both of these cables are easily and cheaply available at any music store.
Second, DO NOT, under any circumstances turn on "Phantom Power" on the mic pre with the SM57. This is a dynamic microphone and does not need and will not handle any sort of electricity being sent to it.
ok im not trying to jack this thread, but im on a never ending quest to get the highest quality recordings possible and im wondering what exactley a mic pre-amp can do? What will adding gain and decreaing gain do for the performance of a normal and condenser mic?
-Scott

Martin D-2R (618256)

http://www.myspace.com/scotttokarz

Time is just a melody...

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Unread post by RunsWithBuffalo » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:02 pm

Mic Pre's are just as important if not more important than the actual mic's themselves. In their most basic form, Mic pre's should have a lot of gain yet still be very quiet or "transparent."

There are also mic pre's with built in compressors, noise gates, and tubes.

Tube Pre amps will warm up the sound quite a bit which is nice for digital recording.

This one is really good
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=180582

And everyone raves about this one, but i have never personally used it.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=180629

Also, i got a chance to use this one and man was it great. Not many features at all but it was quiet and had ample amounts of gain.
http://www.humbuckermusic.com/fmraudrnreal.html
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Unread post by 6_strings_for_life » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:12 pm

RunsWithBuffalo wrote:Mic Pre's are just as important if not more important than the actual mic's themselves. In their most basic form, Mic pre's should have a lot of gain yet still be very quiet or "transparent."

There are also mic pre's with built in compressors, noise gates, and tubes.

Tube Pre amps will warm up the sound quite a bit which is nice for digital recording.

This one is really good
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=180582

And everyone raves about this one, but i have never personally used it.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=180629

Also, i got a chance to use this one and man was it great. Not many features at all but it was quiet and had ample amounts of gain.
http://www.humbuckermusic.com/fmraudrnreal.html
awesome, thanks for the responce. I dont know If I could justify spending 300$ on one, but after looking around, ive been eying this one

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=184132

its got two channels, which would be awesome since guitars and just about everything else can be ran through it for 'tube' sound. And I think that PreSonus makes some preatty rad gear.

what do you think?
-Scott

Martin D-2R (618256)

http://www.myspace.com/scotttokarz

Time is just a melody...

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Unread post by 6_strings_for_life » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:14 pm

RunsWithBuffalo wrote:Mic Pre's are just as important if not more important than the actual mic's themselves. In their most basic form, Mic pre's should have a lot of gain yet still be very quiet or "transparent."

There are also mic pre's with built in compressors, noise gates, and tubes.

Tube Pre amps will warm up the sound quite a bit which is nice for digital recording.

This one is really good
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=180582

And everyone raves about this one, but i have never personally used it.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=180629

Also, i got a chance to use this one and man was it great. Not many features at all but it was quiet and had ample amounts of gain.
http://www.humbuckermusic.com/fmraudrnreal.html
but damnnnnn that one looks sweet
-Scott

Martin D-2R (618256)

http://www.myspace.com/scotttokarz

Time is just a melody...

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RunsWithBuffalo
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Unread post by RunsWithBuffalo » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:47 pm

If you are looking at that presonus i would recommend getting the package deal that comes with 2 Audio Technica 2020 mics for only $49 more.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=184135

But if you are going to record exclusively with your 57, i would find something with a bit more gain. 54dB is good, but some these days are going up to 66 and above.

Still, with those condenser mics and phantom power, you would be set.

I forgot one more preamp that would be in your budget and has quite a bit of power. The M-Audio DMP3.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=241101

It has more gain than the presonus and would work well with an SM57.

Good Luck
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Unread post by sunglassesatnight » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:32 pm

From what I've heard, the Presonus is great, and the DMP3 is not. I've heard of it being quite noisy and flaky in quality.

ART is often hit or miss, some love it, some don't. I don't really see the advantage to the DMPA unless you have some sort of interface to which you are running digital-in. There are a lot of these, and external A/D converters are almost always better than those in consumer level cards, etc. There's also the whole 24 bit issue. Unless you have the capability to play it back (which not many do right now), you have no use for it. You'll have to dither and downsample, both of which can be strongly detrimental to the recording without quality plugins. Then there's the quantization errors that WILL occur if you max your levels in 24 bit. And if you run 24 bit out of the A/D to a 16 bit only device, you'll just truncate, very nastily, the last 8 bits.

That was probably more than you wanted to know, so, based on reliability and what I'm guessing you can accommodate, I think the PreSonus Blue Tube would be a very nice choice.

If you're a DIY (sometimes means ballsy) type, it's possible to upgrade the tubes in these things for even nicer sound.

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Unread post by 6_strings_for_life » Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:22 am

SimsUK wrote: If you're a DIY (sometimes means ballsy) type, it's possible to upgrade the tubes in these things for even nicer sound.
yea thats what ive heard from everybody too. I nice tube costs less than 20$ and can make these things sound 10X better.
-Scott

Martin D-2R (618256)

http://www.myspace.com/scotttokarz

Time is just a melody...

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TheGuyThatJaneLikes
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Unread post by TheGuyThatJaneLikes » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:52 pm

Thanks very much for the help, everyone. I suppose M Audio is the way to go. If my local store doesn't carry it, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to order it in.

I won't be able to update you anytime soon on how I made out with this, as it'll be a little while before I can scrape up the $150-$200 CAD that I'll need to buy it. However, I don't see any problems as long the interface is all I need and I don't need to replace my card.


Thanks again. :)

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Unread post by sunglassesatnight » Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:55 pm

The interface should treat you just right.

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