***The Official Songwriting Thread***

trippinbilly314 · Unread post by **trippinbilly314** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:18 am

I was sitting here and just thinking that so many people, including myself, struggle with songwriting. We have many questions. from "lyrics or music first?" , "Can I write lyrics like poetry?" , "When to and when not to rhyme?". The list could go on forever. I figured if we started this thread up, more people who want to and try to write songs, but just suck, can come to the experienced songwriters for questions. It was just a thought, but anyways, to my question...

I try to come up with lyrics all day, like 24/7, but struggle of how to start off. Do you brainstorm a bunch of words and logically put them together?
Trust me, there is no lack of inspiration, my dad just had an affair... I just dont know how to start off and when i do, i try to rhyme and shit but it just sounds retarded...any help please? thanks everyone. i hope this thread helps others.

Kahn · Unread post by **Kahn** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:32 am

I've kept a journal for the past year and then some, I generally write everyday, but my longer passages are usually when Im angry or sad or somethings wrong. I also jot down any riffs or anything I write in this notebook. Actually, today I was looking through it and it was filled with a years full of music and emotions.

I felt that with writing, I can remember exactly how I felt at that moment about a certain event, and that is great fuel for songwriting. And emotion doesn't only convey itself in lyrics, it can just as easily be an instrumental piece. I mean, Im sure everyone has listened to a piece with no lyrics at one time or another and been seriously moved by music. (Phish-Inlaw Josie Wales and Umphrey's- The Pequod are both extremely moving songs to me, yet they have no lyrics) In the music I find, the heaviest stuff , the most emotional work, doesn't come from loud noises or screaming emotions, I think its the opposite actually

I just think collecting your thoughts in a notebook or sketch pad or however you express yourself, would help put you in the state of mind back when you were so emotional, and as much as it may hurt, emotional music is usually the best.

My $0.02

i am sam2 · Unread post by **i am sam2** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:36 am

well i dont consider myself any good at writing lyrics...but my band needed some lyrics at one point and i ended up writing some pretty decent stuff...ive tried recently and everything i have to say sucks...but i know when i wrote that decent stuff i did it while i was really tired...that seemed to work...so if youre stuck...try that

a1075dd63aa12 · Unread post by **a1075dd63aa12** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:36 am

KahnTheRevelator wrote:I've kept a journal for the past year and then some, I generally write everyday, but my longer passages are usually when Im angry or sad or somethings wrong. I also jot down any riffs or anything I write in this notebook. Actually, today I was looking through it and it was filled with a years full of music and emotions.

I felt that with writing, I can remember exactly how I felt at that moment about a certain event, and that is great fuel for songwriting. And emotion doesn't only convey itself in lyrics, it can just as easily be an instrumental piece. I mean, Im sure everyone has listened to a piece with no lyrics at one time or another and been seriously moved by music. (Phish-Inlaw Josie Wales and Umphrey's- The Pequod are both extremely moving songs to me, yet they have no lyrics) In the music I find, the heaviest stuff , the most emotional work, doesn't come from loud noises or screaming emotions, I think its the opposite actually

I just think collecting your thoughts in a notebook or sketch pad or however you express yourself, would help put you in the state of mind back when you were so emotional, and as much as it may hurt, emotional music is usually the best.

My $0.02

i cant put my lyrics to music very well at all. but anytime something goes through my mind i write it down, without judging it, i just write it down. some shit i go back and read and am like jesus that was horrible and other stuff i will actually think is decent. dont force it either, writer's block happens and the more you stress about it, the harder it is to break out of that funk.

Ricky the Pilot · Unread post by **Ricky the Pilot** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:49 am

I think most songwriters keep a journal of sorts. A notebook where they write everythought they have or story they heard/saw, not just what happened that day. Then they try it with some music. A nice riff or melody they came up with. Sometimes it mixes well, sometimes it doesn't.
I know Dave Matthews said that for him, the music comes first. He always has a hard time with the lyrics. Many songs are poems, other songs are stories. There are no rules. Just do it.

insert picture of nike swoosh...

edit : dang, you guys are quick

trippinbilly314 · Unread post by **trippinbilly314** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:37 am

thanks for the help. i actually am writing my first entry for my journal now.

longleggedfrog · Unread post by **longleggedfrog** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:03 pm

I don't personally keep a journal, but you could call my jottings, half written songs and simple phrases a journal. I always approach an interesting event, or saying with a song in mind. Sometimes I get the chorus and build around that, sometimes I write the first line, build off of that and then hopefully a hooky chorus comes too. sometimes I write a song line by line...I don't know what is going to come next until the current line is finished.....
sometimes I rhyme (slow) and sometimes (I rhyme quick) I don't. essentially when you don't rhyme the factor that links two lines together are the syllables, phrasing and emphasis. You will notice that lines and words used in a non rhyming piece have inflections that are the same, and even though the words don't rhyme it still works well together, because you emphasize at the same point on each line...I hope that makes sense.
Trippin, I wanted to give you an example of what I mean by writing a song based on an event.....when I hear that your father had an affair, I think.......You lie to yourself, but why to me, .....and then you can just build off of that. let the story unfold, but don't be overally descriptive, I wouldn't say dad or mom, I'd keep it open so that anyone can relate to being cheated on...something like that.
another thing I learned that was a huge tool is using Similiar Sounding Words Will Help Hurry Along A song(example). In other words, use a couple of words beginning with same consonant or inflection in a row and you can.....Paint a Pretty Picture. when you use P three times it flows better. good luck.

Kenny

gcom007 · Unread post by **gcom007** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:48 pm

I keep a journal or write on a legal pad...I've also recently begun making text files...I have a second monitor set up now to my laptop solely for the text files...there's always about 8 open so I'm thinking about them and I can just jump to them and write thoughts down. This has been very important lately as I've been trying to write a new song a day. It's a new drill I'm trying to practice finishing songs. As far as what I write, as many have said, I'll jot down stories, ideas, phrases...a lot of times I'll just get a good concept and start free-forming it out...this has been beneficial. I almost universally write the music first though as for the whole...once I get an idea or concept, I start working out melodies and pick up the guitar and write the base of the song than work on melodies some more and lyrics...I tend to write a lot phonetically at first to get an idea of how the words should sound before I throw them down. It makes it harder in some ways, but once they're done, they tend to flow better. I'm a big fan of phonetics in songwriting and view it as kinda essential to getting good, strong songs down.

juineaux · Unread post by **juineaux** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:42 pm

I don't keep a journal or anything. I tried doing that for a while, but I just didn't keep up with it. I don't write down the lyrics to my songs until I have to.

GreyBlueAnt · Unread post by **GreyBlueAnt** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:40 pm

generally, i sing along with whatever music i have. just off the top of my head phonetically. then after i have the melody in a bunch of gibberish words, i'll start writting lyrics to fit what i've already done.

gcom007 · Unread post by **gcom007** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:05 pm

oh yeah, wine helps too...

Machtimus · Unread post by **Machtimus** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:00 pm

gcom007 wrote:oh yeah, wine helps too...

just a little drunk

not completely wasted

definately opens the mind up a bit

Grachi · Unread post by **Grachi** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:37 am

Machtimus wrote:
gcom007 wrote:oh yeah, wine helps too...
just a little drunk

not completely wasted

definately opens the mind up a bit

you got that right.

a1075dd63aa12 · Unread post by **a1075dd63aa12** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:28 am

I just jotted out two pages of lyrics in a half an hour. I have had such a block lately and it just disappeared. I think im going to focus on writing something everyday from here on out, to kind of keep my brain in that mode.

trippinbilly314 · Unread post by **trippinbilly314** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:27 pm

thats a good idea actually, writing everyday will get long though

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