Hey all,
I have been attempting to record an EP with a friend lately, and have run into the problem of getting the right sound i want. I have a Marshall Studio Mic, a Beringer Eurorack MX 802A, an Audiophile M-Audio 2496 Soundcard, and Cool Edit Pro. I know the ins and outs of my setup pretty well, so i dont think the problem is with my current setup. I think that i need to complete it with a compressor however, to the get the truly desired "Studio" sound. I really wanted to purchase a FMR RNC compressor and RNP preamp, but altogether it would cost around 700 dollars. I really cant spend that, and was wondering if anyone else knew of any other really good compressors that i could get.
Thanks
Compressors for recording.
lensky,
interestingly enough i initially used exactly the same setup when i began recording and was also unhappy with the sound i was getting....until i discovered a compressor. theyre really good at making your vocals sound loud, upfront, intimate, etc, and also give a good punchy guitar sound. when i recorded a marshall v67 through an 802 into the audiophile 2496 into vegas, i used sound forge to compress the tracks. that would be my first suggestion. you can get a really good sound with just that setup. i dont know if youre familiar with sound forge, but it's a great two track editing program used in many studios today to clean up tracks. it can add almost any effect to audio and is more than decent with compression. if you like doing editing in the computer, then this is the way to go.
the other option is to get a rack unit. i dont know what type of recording you are doing. are you recording multiple channels live through the main outs? or are you recording single tracks one at a time in a multi-track program? this is where the rack unit wont do you any good, unless you want to record your tracks live with compression. but what if you record your entire track then listen too it and it sounds too compressed. you have to do the whole thing over. that is why i would suggest some sort of plug in compressor or a program like sound forge. it seems you are doing all your mixing in the computer. if that is the case, then a plugin compressor or software is the way to go, because you can always undo something if you dont like it.
if however, you want my suggestion for a rack compressor, i have a dbx 1046 4 channel compressor and a dbx ddp two channel. the 1046 is a great place to start (and much cheaper than $700). you can actually get a two channel one for even less. dbx compressors are in almost every major studio and sound great, and they are fairly inexpensive. it will DEFINATELY make your music sound better.
places to start in improving you sound:
(1) first of all the pre-amps on the 802a are going to make your marshall sound weak. the marshall is actually is very good budget mike. my v67 sounded amazing once i plugged it into a good pre-amp (dbx 386).
(2) add a compressor
links: http://www.dpxpro.com http://www.soundforge.com
hope this helps...
jeff
check out my tracks: http://www.allwool.net/jeff
interestingly enough i initially used exactly the same setup when i began recording and was also unhappy with the sound i was getting....until i discovered a compressor. theyre really good at making your vocals sound loud, upfront, intimate, etc, and also give a good punchy guitar sound. when i recorded a marshall v67 through an 802 into the audiophile 2496 into vegas, i used sound forge to compress the tracks. that would be my first suggestion. you can get a really good sound with just that setup. i dont know if youre familiar with sound forge, but it's a great two track editing program used in many studios today to clean up tracks. it can add almost any effect to audio and is more than decent with compression. if you like doing editing in the computer, then this is the way to go.
the other option is to get a rack unit. i dont know what type of recording you are doing. are you recording multiple channels live through the main outs? or are you recording single tracks one at a time in a multi-track program? this is where the rack unit wont do you any good, unless you want to record your tracks live with compression. but what if you record your entire track then listen too it and it sounds too compressed. you have to do the whole thing over. that is why i would suggest some sort of plug in compressor or a program like sound forge. it seems you are doing all your mixing in the computer. if that is the case, then a plugin compressor or software is the way to go, because you can always undo something if you dont like it.
if however, you want my suggestion for a rack compressor, i have a dbx 1046 4 channel compressor and a dbx ddp two channel. the 1046 is a great place to start (and much cheaper than $700). you can actually get a two channel one for even less. dbx compressors are in almost every major studio and sound great, and they are fairly inexpensive. it will DEFINATELY make your music sound better.
places to start in improving you sound:
(1) first of all the pre-amps on the 802a are going to make your marshall sound weak. the marshall is actually is very good budget mike. my v67 sounded amazing once i plugged it into a good pre-amp (dbx 386).
(2) add a compressor
links: http://www.dpxpro.com http://www.soundforge.com
hope this helps...
jeff
check out my tracks: http://www.allwool.net/jeff
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Xoosh
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Can you define what a compressor does? Once we get past the microphones/ mixers / cables... and programs im completely lost.
/x
/x
E a s t o f b e a u t i f u l - Music and Art
http://www.eastofbeautiful.com
http://www.eobmusic.com - my band
http://www.eastofbeautiful.com
http://www.eobmusic.com - my band
a compressor is probably the hardest "effect" to use in the studio to master, especially if you have no idea what youre doing. but a compressor does exactly what it sounds like, it compresses the signal. you have to understand a few terms that every compressor uses:
threshold: in dB, its the level where the compression starts taking place. if you set your threshold for 12 dB, anything signal louder than that will be compressed. anything softer will remain unchanged.
ratio: the raitio is by how much you are compressing the signal. if you set a 2:1 ratio, that means for every 2 dB of signal over the threshold, it now gets reduced to one. as you increase the ratio, the signal gets more compressed.
output gain: since some of the loud levels have been compressed, you have to make up for that by increasing the overall output gain of the track.
now that you understand those terms, a compressor will take loud signals and "squish" them by some set ratio. the easiest example to understand is when you listen to a rock song with a screaming singer. when the singer sings softly, you can hear every word, but somehow when he begins to scream the chorus the volume of his voice doesnt change much. this is because there is a compressor that will compress the voice and instruments when the song gets loud.
the compressor will compress the loud sounds (making them softer) allwoing the softer sounds to become louder.
best tip: take a professionally recorded song and view it in a wave form with some program (ex. soundforge, vegas). even paste the wave in cool edit pro just to see what it looks like. then record one of your waves and see the difference. a pro-rec wave has an even, loud signal that reaches just under being clipped (max). this is achieved with compression. just beware of compressing too much--it takes the life out of the music and sounds unpleasant to the ear. just start practicing with one and you will get the hang of it.
this is just a basic run down of what compressors do. there are plenty of articles on compressors on the web. search for "dynamic processing" which is the same thing as compression.
hope this is helpful,
jeff
http://www.allwool.net/jeff
threshold: in dB, its the level where the compression starts taking place. if you set your threshold for 12 dB, anything signal louder than that will be compressed. anything softer will remain unchanged.
ratio: the raitio is by how much you are compressing the signal. if you set a 2:1 ratio, that means for every 2 dB of signal over the threshold, it now gets reduced to one. as you increase the ratio, the signal gets more compressed.
output gain: since some of the loud levels have been compressed, you have to make up for that by increasing the overall output gain of the track.
now that you understand those terms, a compressor will take loud signals and "squish" them by some set ratio. the easiest example to understand is when you listen to a rock song with a screaming singer. when the singer sings softly, you can hear every word, but somehow when he begins to scream the chorus the volume of his voice doesnt change much. this is because there is a compressor that will compress the voice and instruments when the song gets loud.
the compressor will compress the loud sounds (making them softer) allwoing the softer sounds to become louder.
best tip: take a professionally recorded song and view it in a wave form with some program (ex. soundforge, vegas). even paste the wave in cool edit pro just to see what it looks like. then record one of your waves and see the difference. a pro-rec wave has an even, loud signal that reaches just under being clipped (max). this is achieved with compression. just beware of compressing too much--it takes the life out of the music and sounds unpleasant to the ear. just start practicing with one and you will get the hang of it.
this is just a basic run down of what compressors do. there are plenty of articles on compressors on the web. search for "dynamic processing" which is the same thing as compression.
hope this is helpful,
jeff
http://www.allwool.net/jeff
wait, so i WOULDN'T want a compressor to record individual tracks into my computer? The reason I ask is because originally I was recording into Cool Edit and using the internal compressor in that program and someone who had done extensive recording with computers told me the internal compressors in Cool Edit, Soundforge, etc. sound like shit. So i figured maybe i should buy an external one. Is that true? And if not, should i just buy a preamp to fix up my sound and use the internal compressor?
you can use a rack compressor to record individual tracks to your computer, however, you cannot change what you have once you record it. there is nothing in the computer to "undo" the amount of compression you recorded. engineers and producers use very little compression when tracking. its used more as a mixdown tool simply for editing reasons.
you can get a rack compressor and recorded your live tracks with compression. you just have to be very careful how much you use, and youll have to monitor this in your headphones while you play.
since the 802A board does not have inserts, it will be a good idea to ask a professional if you need a mic pre first in the chain before it enters the compressor. i am not sure whether you can go mic>compressor>802A>computer. you definately can go mic>802a>compressor>computer so that is not a problem.
bottom line: you definately can record tracks one at a time with a rack compressor and it will do the trick, just much harder to manage. and just to let you know, soundforge compression is not the best, but it does do wonders if you know what youre doing. i am not familiar with cool edit pros.
the battle you are facing with using computer plug ins and rack gear is the problem facing every engineer today--digital or analogue. just try and get one piece of gear at a time. BOTH a mic pre and a compressor will severly help your sound...but remember, without the mic pre you are compressing a already crappy sound, so the mic pre is most important. it will make your microphone sound crisp and clear. that is why there are $2000 microphones and $2000 mic pres. my advice: the pre is probably most important. buy a good mic pre and use a cheap computer plug in to compress for now, until you have the money for a $250 compressor.
i can give some advice on soundforge compression if anyone likes.
buying gear is addicting...beware. good luck.
jeff
http://www.allwool.net/jeff
you can get a rack compressor and recorded your live tracks with compression. you just have to be very careful how much you use, and youll have to monitor this in your headphones while you play.
since the 802A board does not have inserts, it will be a good idea to ask a professional if you need a mic pre first in the chain before it enters the compressor. i am not sure whether you can go mic>compressor>802A>computer. you definately can go mic>802a>compressor>computer so that is not a problem.
bottom line: you definately can record tracks one at a time with a rack compressor and it will do the trick, just much harder to manage. and just to let you know, soundforge compression is not the best, but it does do wonders if you know what youre doing. i am not familiar with cool edit pros.
the battle you are facing with using computer plug ins and rack gear is the problem facing every engineer today--digital or analogue. just try and get one piece of gear at a time. BOTH a mic pre and a compressor will severly help your sound...but remember, without the mic pre you are compressing a already crappy sound, so the mic pre is most important. it will make your microphone sound crisp and clear. that is why there are $2000 microphones and $2000 mic pres. my advice: the pre is probably most important. buy a good mic pre and use a cheap computer plug in to compress for now, until you have the money for a $250 compressor.
i can give some advice on soundforge compression if anyone likes.
buying gear is addicting...beware. good luck.
jeff
http://www.allwool.net/jeff
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