"Unforgivable" Another Original

[Appfro]

thanks guys for the comments. great critique lyrics. i appreciate the help...though i think you're way beyond me as far as the science of lyrics go. anything in this song particular strike you as bad?

[lyrics101]

thanks guys for the comments. great critique lyrics. i appreciate the help...though i think you're way beyond me as far as the science of lyrics go. anything in this song particular strike you as bad?

There's something the contemporary rapper has learned to appreciate more than some contemporary songwriter's, and that's rhyme patterns, especially internal rhymes. Examples:

Eminem:
So what do you say to somebody you hate
Somebody always trying to bring trouble your way
Wanna resolve things in a bloodier way?
Just study a tape of N-double-you A

Take a look at Damien Rice's Rootless Tree:

What I want from you
is empty your head.
But they say be true,
don't stain your bed.
And we do
what we need to be free.
And it leans on me
like a rootless tree.

You have to pay attention to the dialects here; they disappear to some extent in Damien's singing, but not the point you'd find in a professional singer. So if we assume that "what" and "want" have similar vowel sounds when he sings them, and that the Irish "oo" is distorted by a shift in the back of the tongue, closer to the "ah" or "eh" sound. It's slight, but it causes that line to flow along, because each word returns roughly to the original vowel sound.

"Empty your head" gives us (I wish I could transcribe on a computer, but I'll just type out the sounds in a rough sense): "ehmpteh yeur hehd". Sound it out to yourself quickly, and you might understand the point.

"And it leans on me" is (roughly, very roughly) "ehnd eht lehns on meh".

It's not exact, and it's not going to sound like the same vowel with ten consonants in between, but it gives you an idea of the fluidity of the words when SUNG, not necessarily when heard. But when it is heard, the audience can pick up on that kind of subtlety, and it rings better to the ears. Just think of the line "what i want from us, is learn to let go" and how it contrasts with your line, "What I've done, I've turned my eye." Big difference, yes? He has the "uh" in these words: Waht, want, from, and us; as well as the alliteration; is learn to let go. Also, and you WILL find this in Shakespeare (unlike doeth, which should actually be 'doth', which is closer to the word 'does' than do), you'll see the beauty of syllabics.

What. I. Want. From. Us. Is. Learn. To. Let. Go. All single syllable words which form a rhythmic pattern. Damien uses these to follow the basic 4/4 pattern behind him. What I Want & From Us hit sixteenth notes, which are rounded out right at the end: Learn To Let Go (1,2,3,4). Pay attention to how the number of syllables in your phrasing can or cannot be used as a type of meter.

Guys like Damien and Eminem probably just hear things like this when they write it and sing it aloud. One of my favourite bits from Eminem (and think of him what you will, but he's got the rhyme patterns down):

Windows tinted on my ride when I drive in it
So when I rob a bank, run out and just dive in it
So I'll be disguised in it
And if anybody identifies the guy in it
I'll hide for five minutes
Come back, shoot the eyewitness
Fire at the private eye hired to pry in my business
Die, bitches, bastards, brats, pets
This puppy's lucky I didn't blast his ass yet

It's elementary, it's childish, it's shamelessly written as juvenile as possible to antagonize someone or other, but it flows as well as anything you'll hear. And the same should go for anything that's sung.

Another fundamental area of lyrics is the storytelling involved; most lyrics tell stories of some sort or other, and those (in my opinion) are often the best, because you have the fluidity of a play or novel within them. One can't imagine something in their mind unless it's descriptive. So that's what you should go for; not too literal too often, but take the opportunity to describe events, to paste an analogy or allegory to the page. Take an abstract though and personify it somehow.

Think of it as a novelist. You call a girl an angel; good. That's been done two thousand times, probably far before Marlowe. What's better: "A goddess, an angel, who cared for me and shared my love," or, "If I with my unworthiest hand offend, the gentle sin is this; my lips, too blushing pilgrims, ready stand to smooth that rough touch with a gentle kiss."

There are no "doeths," no "doths," nothing fancy. I'm not worthy to touch your hand; it's a sin for me to do so; but I can make amends for that sin, if you'll allow a kiss.

It's creative, it's flirtatious, it's not altogether literal "I want to kiss you, you're beautiful," but it takes that same basic want, that same subject of adolescent "May I please kiss you?" and gives it a clever, easily understandable form. An analogy, that is.

That analogy. He compares her to a shrine, a church, a pure temple, without actually saying "You're as clean and pure and angel-like as a shrine." He compares himself to an unworthy sinner, embarrased for what he has done in touching her, notably with the words, "My lips, too blushing pilgrims."

I'm not saying be Shakespeare (although if you can be, I say do it). I'm saying study the form, and approach it from the same angle; a poetic storytelling.

And steal. Steal from guys who do it well. As Lee Strasberg told his Actors, "If someone at the Studio steals, we applaud them. We only discourage and reprimand when they steal something not worth stealing."

[Easy E]

well, your username certainly fits

[lyrics101]

well, your username certainly fits

I hadn't even thought of that, lol.

MITCH: These are things to take into account after you've written your lyrics. It's what many people have said, and David Trottier (the screenwriter) took the time to publish: Write with your heart, edit with your head.

It goes for lyrics as much as any other medium. Your first draft will never be as good as the second or third. Lyrics are closer to plays or screenplays than to novels or poetry, because they must be edited and revised in the context of the music, much as plays will be altered to the context of the directors vision when placed upon the stage or screen.

Keep hacking, you'll find some marvelous things emerging if you take as much time revising them as you do perfecting that bridge.

[Appfro]

wow. that is some very solid stuff. thanks so much

[Pizzle]

My head hurts

[mangold]

that is very good information, but keep in mind it is by no means law. there are plenty of good songwriters imo that dont take that into account at all when writing. i.e. ben kweller and a ton of folk singers. there are plenty of great musicians that don't even rhyme.

that said, i wanna be like damien so im studyin up. thanks lyrics

[lyrics101]

that is very good information, but keep in mind it is by no means law. there are plenty of good songwriters imo that dont take that into account at all when writing. i.e. ben kweller and a ton of folk singers. there are plenty of great musicians that don't even rhyme.

that said, i wanna be like damien so im studyin up. thanks lyrics

Absolutely true. That's why I said write with your heart, edit with your head. I imagine guys like Damien write it and think, "Well, this sounds good," but don't understand why.

And don't thank me, thank my Speech and Vocal Production teacher; Carnegie Melon and a fucking genious, four generations removed from Henry Tilley (of My Fair Lady fame). We're wrapping up General American and Good Speech For Classic Plays and moving on to accents, Irish at the moment.

[mangold]

that is very good information, but keep in mind it is by no means law. there are plenty of good songwriters imo that dont take that into account at all when writing. i.e. ben kweller and a ton of folk singers. there are plenty of great musicians that don't even rhyme.

that said, i wanna be like damien so im studyin up. thanks lyrics

Absolutely true. That's why I said write with your heart, edit with your head. I imagine guys like Damien write it and think, "Well, this sounds good," but don't understand why.

And don't thank me, thank my Speech and Vocal Production teacher; Carnegie Melon and a fucking genious, four generations removed from Henry Tilley (of My Fair Lady fame). We're wrapping up General American and Good Speech For Classic Plays and moving on to accents, Irish at the moment.

convenient for understanding damien

[GreedylilPig]

You call a girl an angel; good. That's been done two thousand times, probably far before Marlowe. What's better: "A goddess, an angel, who cared for me and shared my love," or, "If I with my unworthiest hand offend, the gentle sin is this; my lips, too blushing pilgrims, ready stand to smooth that rough touch with a gentle kiss."

There are no "doeths," no "doths," nothing fancy. I'm not worthy to touch your hand; it's a sin for me to do so; but I can make amends for that sin, if you'll allow a kiss.

It's creative, it's flirtatious, it's not altogether literal "I want to kiss you, you're beautiful," but it takes that same basic want, that same subject of adolescent "May I please kiss you?" and gives it a clever, easily understandable form. An analogy, that is.

I'm not saying be Shakespeare (although if you can be, I say do it). I'm saying study the form, and approach it from the same angle; a poetic storytelling.

This is good stuff.

I am curious to know what you think of this little, shall we say, flexing of the Shakespearean muscle:

Why do I beg like a child
For your candy
Why do I come after you
Like I do
I love you
Whatever you are I swear
You’ll be my angel
You

[tbillie41]

mitch, this song was absolutely amazing. great guitar work, your voice sounds fantastic. damn.

[a1075dd63aa12]

nice post lyrics

[lyrics101]

You call a girl an angel; good. That's been done two thousand times, probably far before Marlowe. What's better: "A goddess, an angel, who cared for me and shared my love," or, "If I with my unworthiest hand offend, the gentle sin is this; my lips, too blushing pilgrims, ready stand to smooth that rough touch with a gentle kiss."

There are no "doeths," no "doths," nothing fancy. I'm not worthy to touch your hand; it's a sin for me to do so; but I can make amends for that sin, if you'll allow a kiss.

It's creative, it's flirtatious, it's not altogether literal "I want to kiss you, you're beautiful," but it takes that same basic want, that same subject of adolescent "May I please kiss you?" and gives it a clever, easily understandable form. An analogy, that is.

I'm not saying be Shakespeare (although if you can be, I say do it). I'm saying study the form, and approach it from the same angle; a poetic storytelling.

This is good stuff.

I am curious to know what you think of this little, shall we say, flexing of the Shakespearean muscle:

Why do I beg like a child
For your candy
Why do I come after you
Like I do
I love you
Whatever you are I swear
You’ll be my angel
You

I think there a couple of things that make that work: first of all, the analogy is simple and clear, as I said, without unnecessary ambiguity that people often confuse with poetry. It's like the sonnet, "Shall I compare thee with a summers day? Thou art more lovely, and more temperate."

It fits in that vein; the child for your candy line, from that aspect, is fabulous.

"Why do I come after you like I do, I love you" is less the work of a wordsmith than a drummer, created to bounce along. The variations on the O vowel are numerous: Do, come, you, do, (to some extent) love, you; and even then the come & love hold themselves as a framework; structure to the do, you, do, you portion. You see the rhythmic patters. It even ends with love you, and with that are I sounds; the trapset to the snare, if you will: Why, I, Like, I, I.

He doesn't sing "Whatever," which is smart. Instead, it flows on the dyphthong we hear in the word "Air." What-'er, you are.

So from that thought, I think it's near perfect.

What I think makes the "angel" line works is that it is a shift away from the analogous nature of "like a child" and into the direct statement. There are no, "You're like an angel," "as beautiful as an angel," "eyes of an angel," because what do those mean? We assume that angels are beautiful, yes, but do they offer any real imagery? Any safe direction for the imagination? That's the ambiguity I encourage people to stay away from: not in an entire lyrical work. Pink Floyd showed that's possible, that you need not speak as it is. But line by line, I don't think you can allow that, because that makes it impossible for the listeners thoughts to follow. Better that they follow a clear, concise path, line by line, to an ambiguous ending they must think about, than to simply confuse them from word one, because then you've lost your listener's ear.

So it's the shift from the simile, "like a child for your candy," to the direct statement, "You'll be my angel, you," that causes it to ring better than most.

Also, as far as paragraphs go, 'angel' fits right in with the word 'after,' surrounded by the I, Air, and You vowel sounds, to pull attention to that word. Beautifully written, as far as I'm concerned, whether he meant to or not.