"Unforgivable" Another Original

[Blake]

you suck mitch!!



/constructive criticism

[EnFuego]

If more than 10 people said the lyrics were corny, then I would consider reevaluating them. However, if it's only a person or 2, then it doesn't matter because not everyone is going to like a song. Not everyone is creative enough to come up with original lyrics, cliched or not. Constructive criticism would be something like "you should rearrange the verses", "try changing this word to this" or "change the sentence structure here to make it flow better.", etc....

I concur.

[iha]

well i've come to figure that i just can't win w/ lyrics. so i really don't hold a grain of salt to anyone's critiques about them anymore. no one can tell me why they hate my lyrics, people just say they don't like them or they're weak or cheesy, but no one tells me why, so i can't fix it. therefore, i just don't care what people have to say about lyrics anymore

but i appreciate all of the comments about the music and i'm glad you guys liked it. enfuego, it's all based around Em, C, D w/ the e and b strings held at three similar to barricades which is em, c, d, g, w/ a different lick. i wasn't inspired by the song cause i didn't hear it for the first time until about 3 months ago, but i freaking love that song

I think thats the attitude you've got to have about personal stuff like lyrics, and music in general.

You'll never improve with an attitude like that, though.

but i'll never improve w/ people just telling me my lyrics are cheesy or corny. if you can't give constructive criticism then i don't see the point in criticising...cuase then you're just telling them it's no good and unable to be fixed. if someone told me my llyrics sucked and said, here's what you could do or think about to improve them, then i would take that info w/ everything it's worth and really try to impliment the changes accordingly. but if you say, your lyrics are cheesy, then there's nothing i can do about that and you're an ass for saying it cause you have nothing to back it up.

just my opinion, and i'm not callin gyou an ass, you've always had good tips for me, i'm speaking in generalities.

You should be thankful that people listen to your songs and tell you what they think. That's how this forum works... you post your recording, and people tell you what they think. People don't have to justify their answers or tell you ways to make it better. If you want to ignore people's opinions, fine... If you want to consider their opinions and try to write more original lyrics, even better... Either way its up to you... But to say that someone shouldn't post unless they are ready to defend their opinions and/or tell you how to make it better is just stupid.

i don't know why you're all up in arms over this...he said i wouldn't get anywhere if i didn't listen to people's opinions, but saying someone's lyrics suck isn't give them a chance to grow/change. i rarely, very rarely give someone a critique w/o teling them what i think they should do to fix it or what they could do to do better. my point was that if you come in and say, i don't like this song very much, that's a pretty pointless critique, but i can handle it. and if someone says, your lyrics suck, that's a pointless critique and i can handle it. and i feel like someone is really just trying to tell you that you suck and really has no creative input on how you can make it better. it's like saying, you suck, i can't do better, but you suck too.

You should be thankful that people listen to your songs and tell you what they think.

and what was that about? i take a lot of time listening to people's songs on this forum from beginning to finish and i give good CONSTRUCTIVE criticism so even if i was the worst musician on these boards, i would hope someone would extend me the common courtesy of listening to my song.

let me just say, i'm not mad at anyone, and i'm not trying to be an ass. i was merely stating that i think giving someone a negative critique w/ no constructive criticism isn't helping anyone and actually only brings down the spirit of the person who poured their heart and soul into the song in the beginning. that's all i was trying to say, i wasn't trying to come off as an ass.

i'm gunna go with Appfro on this one. Sorry thepackage0.

[myxomatosis]

If more than 10 people said the lyrics were corny, then I would consider reevaluating them. However, if it's only a person or 2, then it doesn't matter because not everyone is going to like a song. Not everyone is creative enough to come up with original lyrics, cliched or not.

exactly! That's my point... just because one person has the opinion that the lyrics are cliche, doesn't mean he has to change it... but if 10 people say they are cliche, he should probably think about reevaluating them (up to him of course)... that's constructive

[Appfro]

yea, i didn't mean for this to turn into a big deal. the only reason i said something was to add to my point of not listening to lyrics comments anymore cause that's not true, i love to hear how to fix bad lyrics, i just don't get that very often. anyway, sorry this got blown up. i think we can all leave happy now.

[mangold]

honestly, i believe that while there are alot of good opinions floating around here, along with some shitty ones, all that matters in the end is what you think. Its up to mitchy and mitchy has spoken.

i.e. i think all my lyrics are cliche and corny as hell, lots of people tell me they're not, but im not gonna be like "O ok i guess ill just accept them"

music in an expression, its not about how his expression makes you feel, its about how it makes him feel

[Speenis]

no matter how you look at it, mitchy's lyrics are very subpar, but no matter what anyone says he won't listen

is that what I've learned from this thread?

[mangold]

no matter how you look at it, mitchy's lyrics are very subpar, but no matter what anyone says he won't listen

is that what I've learned from this thread?

nailed it speen

[myxomatosis]

no matter how you look at it, mitchy's lyrics are very subpar, but no matter what anyone says he won't listen

is that what I've learned from this thread?

I learned that appfro expects more from his critics than just what they thought of his recording.

[Speenis]

whoops, I was blasted last night, just kidding

let this discussion die pleaaaase

[lyrics101]

As far as the lyrics go, colloquialism is and always has been "in". Lyrics like "doeth" are a) not really a word in any era, and b) Shakespeare wrote that way because people spoke that way -- a thing to remember. The ambiguous imagery and such are just fine, but be sure not to force your audience to listen through an emotional/empathetic wall with things like that.

Also, take the time to pay attention to simple grammatical tricks, like alliteration in the lyrcs -- it gives it a rhythmic pattern that's otherwise not there. Pay attention to the placement of words in which the vowel sounds come in the emphasized syllable; when you shoot for a note, imagine that vowel sound emerging from your lips. It'll be easier to hit the note. This will also assist the in the basic principles of singing, because when you sing, the consonant sound should come before the beat; this way, the vowel sound hits on the beat. The vowel sound is what's being held, after all.

Pay attention to the diphthongs in your sounds, as well (a diphthong is a single syllable vowel sound made by melding two different vowel sounds; ther are also triphthongs; just say the word "my" and you can feel the movement of your lips and tongues from one sound to the other to make it.)

When you sing a word like this, you want to hold out the first sound, and shift over to the latter sound(s) at the end of the phrasing. "My" would be sung "ma-i-ee," not trying to hold the spot right between "ma-i" or "i-ee". That chokes off the throat.

And to correct my earlier post on your singing, since I didn't mention it (although it seems like common sense), don't record your singing with a yawn. Practicing that way is meant to open up your throat, so your voice comes through like smoke through a chimney, not the whistled, choked sounds of air through a crack (although you're not nearly that far back in your throat; just giving examples).

I totally recommend vocal lessons. Wish I'd had them before I recorded my other shit.

[lyrics101]

honestly, i believe that while there are alot of good opinions floating around here, along with some shitty ones, all that matters in the end is what you think. Its up to mitchy and mitchy has spoken.

i.e. i think all my lyrics are cliche and corny as hell, lots of people tell me they're not, but im not gonna be like "O ok i guess ill just accept them"

music in an expression, its not about how his expression makes you feel, its about how it makes him feel

If that were true, it would not be necessary to ask for criticism and look for ways to improve it.

If that were true, this song would never have been posted, and this discussion non-existant. Clearly, Mitch has a keen eye on performance art when he writes his songs. I'd think he, like nearly everyone else, wants it to be heard and appreciated. To appreciate is to empathize, and that means the audience needs to feel.

[Pizzle]

As far as the lyrics go, colloquialism is and always has been "in". Lyrics like "doeth" are a) not really a word in any era, and b) Shakespeare wrote that way because people spoke that way -- a thing to remember. The ambiguous imagery and such are just fine, but be sure not to force your audience to listen through an emotional/empathetic wall with things like that.

Also, take the time to pay attention to simple grammatical tricks, like alliteration in the lyrcs -- it gives it a rhythmic pattern that's otherwise not there. Pay attention to the placement of words in which the vowel sounds come in the emphasized syllable; when you shoot for a note, imagine that vowel sound emerging from your lips. It'll be easier to hit the note. This will also assist the in the basic principles of singing, because when you sing, the consonant sound should come before the beat; this way, the vowel sound hits on the beat. The vowel sound is what's being held, after all.

Pay attention to the diphthongs in your sounds, as well (a diphthong is a single syllable vowel sound made by melding two different vowel sounds; ther are also triphthongs; just say the word "my" and you can feel the movement of your lips and tongues from one sound to the other to make it.)

When you sing a word like this, you want to hold out the first sound, and shift over to the latter sound(s) at the end of the phrasing. "My" would be sung "ma-i-ee," not trying to hold the spot right between "ma-i" or "i-ee". That chokes off the throat.

And to correct my earlier post on your singing, since I didn't mention it (although it seems like common sense), don't record your singing with a yawn. Practicing that way is meant to open up your throat, so your voice comes through like smoke through a chimney, not the whistled, choked sounds of air through a crack (although you're not nearly that far back in your throat; just giving examples).

I totally recommend vocal lessons. Wish I'd had them before I recorded my other shit.

I think this is what he's looking for when he says constructive criticism /high five

[mangold]

honestly, i believe that while there are alot of good opinions floating around here, along with some shitty ones, all that matters in the end is what you think. Its up to mitchy and mitchy has spoken.

i.e. i think all my lyrics are cliche and corny as hell, lots of people tell me they're not, but im not gonna be like "O ok i guess ill just accept them"

music in an expression, its not about how his expression makes you feel, its about how it makes him feel

If that were true, it would not be necessary to ask for criticism and look for ways to improve it.

If that were true, this song would never have been posted, and this discussion non-existant. Clearly, Mitch has a keen eye on performance art when he writes his songs. I'd think he, like nearly everyone else, wants it to be heard and appreciated. To appreciate is to empathize, and that means the audience needs to feel.

it is possible for him to want to know others opinions without necessarily changing his work based on them.

[GreedylilPig]

Probably my favorite recording of yours, Mitch.

I particularly enjoy the transition from verse to chorus. Very well done.

The best feature of your voice is how believable it is. I doubt it's capable of coming off as just going through the motions.