A better Tim vs. SRV arguement (must read)

[woj12_16]

Welp... here goes nothing.

First, I was made aware of this thread through timreynolds.com . Everyone over there is saying that this argument is a bunch of bullshit, and that no one over here know what they're talking about. I decided to check it out. I read all 12 pages or whatever here, all the posts over there, own all SRV dvd's and CD's, box set, read a 300 page SRV biography, took time to learn note perfect versions of his songs, and shit, even thrown pao ferro guitar wood on my hand made guitar in due respect to SRV's Number One (please check it out, top left corner, under Mark J. Wojtowicz, http://www.warmoth.com/gallery/gallery. ... include_lp ) That being said, I went to 4 Timmy shows, own studio cd's and even a couple boots. I am well versed in both guitarists, as they are both my favorite guitarists in the world.

So please dont tell me to listen to song 'x' and tell me that im dead wrong.

But i have to argue my point here, as many people say, there is no right and wrong answer. There is. The question was stated, "who was the better guitarist?" or something along the lines. Therein lies the problem. We all define our definition of guitarist differently. Since this is actually a tabbing site, a good percentage of us play guitar, so we each will tend toward difference aspects and consider each trait most important. Example: I believe BB King is one of the best guitarists ever, why? because he's got one mean ass vibrato, and i personally value that. A shredder who considers vibrato a waste of precious time will disagree to the death. Who is right? Who is wrong?

To simplify this arguement, lets rather argue about specific aspects of their work, and then we can debate with some resemblance of intelligence, rather than calling each other idiots.

...in no specific order....

Creativity.
Tim Reynolds displays a massive amount of creativity in his work. Many solo's flow through a range of tactics, and I never really know where he will end up. Stevie can be a little more direct, and usually will resolve to the typical 'blues' notes. This is not bad. This is well sought after in the blues community, and it takes years of practice to aquire this trait. Stevie is also more restricted to the blaise 12 bar blues. Very very restrictive. However, many songs do not, i repeat, do not use the 12 bar, and he delves into incredible music.

Both possessed awesome techiniques. Tim frequently plays over the soundhole of his acoustic, to produce a percussive sound with some noticable pitch. Stevie sometimes did the oppisite, he'd play on the otherside of the nut. Stevie will play and simultaneously toggle the toggle switch(Voodoo Chile) which produces an awesome effect.

"Rounded" (sorry couldnt think of a better word)
Tim might have this on lock down. Piano, sitar, geez someone out there said violin. Very well-rounded. Does this add to his ability to play guitar. Sure does. But the question was "whos a better guitarist?" Tim will kill SRV in violin, that a different medium in its own. And, guys, SRV did play acoustic guitar, but again different mediums. Most of SRv's acoustic work wasn't the virtuoustic type, so i find it really hard to compare. And, guys, Timmy is an electric guitarist, theres no doubt about it. That his thing. He got famous for his acoustic work, sure, but heart and soul is on the electric. But anyways, SRV used to play bass in his brother's band when he was a young lad, and since he didnt own a bass, he took his strat and tuned it down low. That in my mind, is very 'rounded'

Effects
Tim makes great use of his processors and the like, and I personally believe that that can be calculated into the "who's better subject" A good knowledge of effects, such as dely, takes knowledge of things like bpm, gain, shit, i belive you have to have a good idea how each effect affects the sound wave(ya know the sine cosine wave?) People are going to argue this point, but its my opinion, and if you can master certain effects, you can create crazy tonal sounds and auroras that normal a normal clean guitar can't. Does it make you better if you master all this Without using effects? That's your decision, and i respect that, you will make a valid point. But as we introduce new effects, your style and attack must change, so its really is a measure of your ability to adapt to different circumstances. I want to make it clear, because Tim is great with it all, and many people will attribute this category to Tim, that Stevie, possessed his Tower of Power, which was basically a wall of amps he used. He was a stickler of tone. It needed to be right(that's why his tone is soooo noticable). I even heard of an account where he played a whole show strung through a pair of headphones, yup, he stuck a microphone in the ear of the headphones and jammed. Stevie heard what he wanted in his head, and made i happen.

Knowledge
Tim has it, Stevie doesnt. However, I do not think this matters. Tim seems to have been built through his incredible knowledge of the instrument, and probably has most theory down pat. That awesome, and has made him the excellent guitarist that he his. Stevie took music class in elementary school, and failed miserably(to his defense, his teacher walked up to a piano, played a 10 finger chord, and his students had to pick apart the notes, that's impossible) It's questionable is this is relevant. But, people who say "Oh, so and so doesnt know how to read sheet music", that's just bullshit. Sting doesnt know how to read. Charles Shultz, creator of the comic 'Peanuts' came in last in college art class in the category of drawing humans. And Neapolean Bonapart, military strategic god, ranked 50th in his class of 61 at Frances College de War(er sumthin like that) You dont need to know it all to become the best at something. And sheet music for guitar is bullshit in itself. You put a C down on the staff, and i think i counted 21 C's on the fretboard. Sure, ok, there are only a couple of middle C's, but theres more than one, so it's kind of impossible to know what position the piece is meant to be played that. That is why, my friends, they invented tab.
In Tim's defense, "A man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge" -austin dusty miller. Im sure there has been times in Tim's playing that his knowlege of music theory has filled a missing link that a song lacked.

Passion
Stevie by a long shot. Im sorry, dont tell me otherwise. His emotions and passion flowed freely. Someone on the thread said anyone can bend a minor 3rd to show emotion. That is untrue. I challenge anyone to play me a clip of a piece of SRV music that equals his passion. It's impossible. You cant. Why? SRV is SRV. You did not go through his hardships or experinces. He bled though his guitar, literally. He once ripped off a calous on his finger. What did he do? He took elmers glue, glued it back on, and played another 45-minute set.
Tim shows loads of passion in his playing. Unfourtunatly, he fails do this in the DMB+Tim shows. You have to look to live shows to find it.

Skillz to pay da billz
Both are super accurate while being super fast. Tim especially is super on money. Stevie used .13's on his electric, so that slowed him down a little. Both are excellent guitarists. The fact is, they would never be able to switch places. Stevie could never play accompianment behind Dave as well as Tim does, and Tim could never squeeze out soul-drenched texas blue the way Stevie did.



There a bunch of other aspects i can ponder up, but im tired of typing. I would just like to add a few more misc. things to take into account. Stevie died in his prime. There was no way to measure his potential. He just got off a really bad drug/alcohol addiction (he used to take a beer, slam it down, fill it with Crown Royal, and then lined the top of the beer can with cocain, and then he took that up on stage to drink/snort inbetween songs!) i also heard accounts of his final show in Alpine Valley. He was touring with the likes of Eric Clapton, Buddy Guy, Robert Cray and it was said that he blown them away. Purely embarrased them.


But anyways, i would like to hear a better discussion about this matter. Some people say that theres no reason to argue, but thats the worst thing we can do. I'd rather people go to war over this topic than have us discuss American Idol. We're all guitarists, and this is what we do. It's in our blood, and it makes me damn proud to be a part of this discussion.

God Bless,
Mark

[Beauford33]

You are missing maybe the most important (in my opinion, as well as many professional musicaians I have met) "catagory". Muscianship. I really dont care that much about skill. If you gave me the choice of a guitarist that would play an amazing backing part and just make the music all it could and capture the emmotion that is suppose to be portrayed with an occasional solo or a guy that would just rip a solo over everything else with the most complicated note patterns and rythms...Id take that first guy.


But as for my imput, I think SRV is the greater musician.

[MWR]

After all that that you didn't even give us your own opinion.

Stevie by a long shot. Im sorry, dont tell me otherwise. His emotions and passion flowed freely. Someone on the thread said anyone can bend a minor 3rd to show emotion. That is untrue.

I'm sorry but I'm gonna go ahead and tell you otherwise.
The point I was making is that Blues is inherantly steeped in passion. It's far more difficult to convey passion in a style that's more subtle.
I also think it's rather absurd to equate SRV bleeding on his guitar with passion. I've heard of plenty of guitarist's that have bled on their guitar, are they all more passionate than Tim? It's dedication not passion.

I'll say it one last time: a more versatile guitarist is a better guitarist. That's my opinion and it's neither right or wrong. That's why these discussions are pointless. At least it's not Dave vs. Mayer though.

[dmbguitar718]

well, "effects" shouldn't really be a category. but you made some cool points.

[MWR]

First, I was made aware of this thread through timreynolds.com . Everyone over there is saying that this argument is a bunch of bullshit, and that no one over here know what they're talking about.

I'd also like to add that I'm sick of you guys coming from the Reynolds boards and treating everyone here like they're inferior. That's a rediculous assumption and a even more rediculous way to introduce yourself to these boards. You should at least have some humility when you're posting for the first time.

So please dont tell me to listen to song 'x' and tell me that im dead wrong.

And what the hell is that? You come to start another discussion but nobody's allowed to disagree with you? Give me a break.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking you but you didn't exactly make me want to roll out the welcome mat.

[czech]

cliffs notes???

[GuitarGuy305]

I don't know this guy from the TR boards.

woj12_16, if you're from the TR boards, what's your screenname over there?

Sounds like someone has a hardon for SRV.

There will never be a true decent answer to this, as there is no true unbiased opinion on the matter. woj12_16 may own and listen to both SRV and Tim, but he clearly likes SRV more than Tim, which taints this whole post.

[MWR]

I don't know this guy from the TR boards.

woj12_16, if you're from the TR boards, what's your screenname over there?

Sounds like someone has a hardon for SRV.

There will never be a true decent answer to this, as there is no true unbiased opinion on the matter. woj12_16 may own and listen to both SRV and Tim, but he clearly likes SRV more than Tim, which taints this whole post.

I saw the doppelganger thread over on the TR boards and I must say I expected much more from you guys. As more experianced musicians I'd hope that ya'll would stop by to impart knowledge in a civil way yet all we've gotten so far is childish attitude.

That being said Hopeful Rolling Waves can DIAF!

[myxomatosis]

I'm sorry but I'm gonna go ahead and tell you otherwise.
The point I was making is that Blues is inherantly steeped in passion. It's far more difficult to convey passion in a style that's more subtle.
I also think it's rather absurd to equate SRV bleeding on his guitar with passion. I've heard of plenty of guitarist's that have bled on their guitar, are they all more passionate than Tim? It's dedication not passion.

Even compared to other non-blues guitarists, Tim seems to lack feeling and emotion IMO. Granted, I've only heard Tim's stuff on L@LC and L@RR.

[woj12_16]

I don't belong to the TR boards, and never once made a post over there. i read both message boards because im a fan. we all are. that's is why we come together.

I do have a hardon for SRV, and I do as well for Timmy. Recently I've been into Timmy's music a lot more than Stevies.

I tried giving an equal perspective to both guitarists. My biss if it seems as if i was leaning towards SRV.

MWR, im not bashing anyone. I'm trying to praise 2 great guitarist for what they, to compare to contrast, maybe so some might get a better understanding and different viewpoints, and maybe even reshape my own. You may critize my opinions, your supposed to. And no way do i want to spread a childish attitude.

Your opinion is noted. Versatility. Anyone else?

[fatjack]

Effects
Tim makes great use of his processors and the like, and I personally believe that that can be calculated into the "who's better subject" A good knowledge of effects, such as dely, takes knowledge of things like bpm, gain, shit, i belive you have to have a good idea how each effect affects the sound wave(ya know the sine cosine wave?) People are going to argue this point, but its my opinion, and if you can master certain effects, you can create crazy tonal sounds and auroras that normal a normal clean guitar can't. Does it make you better if you master all this Without using effects? That's your decision, and i respect that, you will make a valid point. But as we introduce new effects, your style and attack must change, so its really is a measure of your ability to adapt to different circumstances.

if anything proves some lacking in the intelligence area, its definitely this section... sin and cosine wave? do you even know what you are talking about? also, excellent misuse of the word "aurora"

as for your arguement as a whole: why? nothing you said is any different than what was posted in the other thread. you've made the same points, but you simply attempt mask your little essay as an objective statement (when all it really is is a rather subjective incidence of fellatio).

im in a pissy mood and tired of hearing this shit, so i apologize for the rudeness

[filmdude100cms]

daves bled on his guitar, played a show with a pinched nerve in his hand, does that make him a better guitarist than tim?

like that guy up there said, blues is made for emotion, the whole genre is about expressing harsh feelings, and once you understand it, you can play it dead pan sound the same with no emotion. other styles like tim takes a long time to know how to do right. it takes a great deal of passion with the instrument to learn allllll the theory he has. it takes a lot as well to be able to use your fingers faster and better than many can with a pick.

in my opinion tim has worked harder to get where he is, SRV had skill yes, but overall i think both are great, but tim has more of what i think is in an amazing guitarist.

[shess22]

i would just like to say i thought that was a pretty damn impressive post. I dont have an opinion about who is better though, and thats because i havent really listened to either extensively. Does anyone have any recommendations as to where i should start (for both artists)

[MWR]

like that guy up there said,

Almost 2000 posts and I'm "that guy up there".

[filmdude100cms]

like that guy up there said,

Almost 2000 posts and I'm "that guy up there".

well im used to the peter pan micheal jackson and the southpark kid, this new one i forget who owns it.