how do you know what scales go with what chords?

ChineseDM · Unread post by **ChineseDM** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:53 pm

Old Jam
E:-0-----3-----1-------------
B:-1-----0-----1------1---3--
G:-2-----0-----2------x---x--
D:-2-----0-----3------2---4--
A:-0-----2-----3------3---5--
E:--------3-----1/------------
aren't the last 2 chords C & D respectively?

and C/Am has no sharps i thought? in respect to you saying it fits in C/Am

Pickles · Unread post by **Pickles** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:00 pm

edit: i was corrected. i had a dumb theory teacher. it is just Am.

MWR · Unread post by **MWR** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:10 pm

The way to explain this is very simple.

It's in Am but the IV chord (D) is major not minor.
I don't want to get over your head here but that harmony relates to a different key than A natural minor. To get a bit technical about it you would say this progression is in A Dorian.
So for the purposes of soloing you would use the A natural minor scale(Aeolian Mode) over every chord except the D and when that D comes up you would switch to A Dorian which has the same notes as a G major scale. In other words, you're accounting for that f# while still thinking in the key of A minor.
This is an over simplified explanation but it answers the question. It's also incredibly hard to explain but it's a pretty simple concept. Damn music theory with all your lingo!

Pickles · Unread post by **Pickles** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:16 pm

MWR wrote:The way to explain this is very simple.

It's in Am but the IV chord (D) is major not minor.
I don't want to get over your head here but that harmony relates to a different key than A natural minor. To get a bit technical about it you would say this progression is in A Dorian.
So for the purposes of soloing you would use the A natural minor scale(Aeolian Mode) over every chord except the D and when that D comes up you would switch to A Dorian which has the same notes as a G major scale. In other words, you're accounting for that f# while still thinking in the key of A minor.
This is an over simplified explanation but it answers the question. It's also incredibly hard to explain but it's a pretty simple concept. Damn music theory with all your lingo!

i trust your thoughts more than mine, seeing as how i had a stupid teacher, but the scale would be A melodic minor wouldnt it?

i had a dumb teacher.. why didnt she teach us the important stuff.

MWR · Unread post by **MWR** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:33 pm

shane wrote:
MWR wrote:The way to explain this is very simple.

It's in Am but the IV chord (D) is major not minor.
I don't want to get over your head here but that harmony relates to a different key than A natural minor. To get a bit technical about it you would say this progression is in A Dorian.
So for the purposes of soloing you would use the A natural minor scale(Aeolian Mode) over every chord except the D and when that D comes up you would switch to A Dorian which has the same notes as a G major scale. In other words, you're accounting for that f# while still thinking in the key of A minor.
This is an over simplified explanation but it answers the question. It's also incredibly hard to explain but it's a pretty simple concept. Damn music theory with all your lingo!
i trust your thoughts more than mine, seeing as how i had a stupid teacher, but the scale would be A melodic minor wouldnt it?

i had a dumb teacher.. why didnt she teach us the important stuff.

No it wouldn't be melodic minor because that would give you a major/dominant V chord as well. Granted this progression doesn't even have the V but it just wouldn't make sense to make it more complex than it has to be. Of course you could potentially use the melodic minor scale but strictly speaking this is an A Dorian progression.
Don't let this get too confusing though. The majority of the progression is in A natural minor. It's only for that couple of seconds, over the D, that you have to think modally.

ChineseDM · Unread post by **ChineseDM** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:12 pm

MWR wrote:The way to explain this is very simple.

It's in Am but the IV chord (D) is major not minor.
I don't want to get over your head here but that harmony relates to a different key than A natural minor. To get a bit technical about it you would say this progression is in A Dorian.
So for the purposes of soloing you would use the A natural minor scale(Aeolian Mode) over every chord except the D and when that D comes up you would switch to A Dorian which has the same notes as a G major scale. In other words, you're accounting for that f# while still thinking in the key of A minor.
This is an over simplified explanation but it answers the question. It's also incredibly hard to explain but it's a pretty simple concept. Damn music theory with all your lingo!

whoa thx MWR, that gave a lotta insight, so it's Am, but following chord progression of I-IV-V, A-D-E, being major chords, and although D has a F#, you still try to stick with the root which is A? and in this case A dorian which is T st T T T st T, so A B C D E F# G A (same scale as G maj but can still be interpreted relative to A) when it's the D chord?

MWR · Unread post by **MWR** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:29 pm

ChineseDM wrote:
MWR wrote:The way to explain this is very simple.

It's in Am but the IV chord (D) is major not minor.
I don't want to get over your head here but that harmony relates to a different key than A natural minor. To get a bit technical about it you would say this progression is in A Dorian.
So for the purposes of soloing you would use the A natural minor scale(Aeolian Mode) over every chord except the D and when that D comes up you would switch to A Dorian which has the same notes as a G major scale. In other words, you're accounting for that f# while still thinking in the key of A minor.
This is an over simplified explanation but it answers the question. It's also incredibly hard to explain but it's a pretty simple concept. Damn music theory with all your lingo!
whoa thx MWR, that gave a lotta insight, so it's Am, but following chord progression of I-IV-V, A-D-E, being major chords, and although D has a F#, you still try to stick with the root which is A? and in this case A dorian which is T st T T T st T, so A B C D E F# G A (same scale as G maj but can still be interpreted relative to A) when it's the D chord?

A-D-E would be A major which has an F# so you don't have to worry there, you'd just play in A major.
And yes. That's exactly what I was saying about A dorian.

ChineseDM · Unread post by **ChineseDM** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:33 pm

ahhh gotcha thanks

trippin6strings · Unread post by **trippin6strings** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:20 am

damn, im amazed that im understanding this stuff, i really appreciate you guys taking the time to explain this stuff. just a question, say if i wanted to solo over "say goodbye" i know id want to play in the key of A maj, but as far as modes go, which one would i want to jam in? i dont wanna be quick to say A ionian cuz from my (very) limited knowledge, A ionian is has all the same notes as A maj and that kinda just leaves me running in circles. i guess i dont quite have a good grasp on modes and all their meanings but any help would be much appreciated

MWR · Unread post by **MWR** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:57 am

trippin6strings wrote:damn, im amazed that im understanding this stuff, i really appreciate you guys taking the time to explain this stuff. just a question, say if i wanted to solo over "say goodbye" i know id want to play in the key of A maj, but as far as modes go, which one would i want to jam in? i dont wanna be quick to say A ionian cuz from my (very) limited knowledge, A ionian is has all the same notes as A maj and that kinda just leaves me running in circles. i guess i dont quite have a good grasp on modes and all their meanings but any help would be much appreciated

No problem. Glad my ramblings are helping someone.

First of all Ionian IS major. They are one in the same and completely interchangable. Just as the Natural minor scale is reffered to as Aeolian.
I'm sure you've heard all of these modes: Ionian (major), Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian(minor), and Locrian. What you have to understand is that these are the modes of the MAJOR SCALE. In other words, if Ionian is blue than all of it's modes are different shades of blue.
They also produce their own Harmony(chords). That's the single most important thing in understanding modes and scales in general. The scale used is dictated by the chords and vice-versa.

Say Goodbye uses the most common progression in all of songwriting: I, IV, V. Well it's actually I, V, IV but that's just a slight variation on I, IV, V. Anyway, this is definately a major scale situation.
I could go on forever so if you want more help you gotta give me more specific problems/questions.

CBalvarez · Unread post by **CBalvarez** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:10 pm

[quote="filmdude100cms"]well 1. best thing is to learn theory, then youll know keys... all scales will work with all chords BUT not all scales will work with all chords if they are different keys, theory will teach you what position to play the scale in to get it in key with whatever chords you need....

Did you read what you wrote man? That doesnt make sense

mangold · Unread post by **mangold** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:43 pm

http://www.cyberfret.com/scales/guitar-codex/index.php

i just found it and its cool

hmm69 · Unread post by **hmm69** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:34 pm

this is such a stupid question

MWR · Unread post by **MWR** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:45 pm

hmm69 wrote:this is such a stupid question

WTF

hmm69 · Unread post by **hmm69** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:47 pm

MWR wrote:
hmm69 wrote:this is such a stupid question
WTF

yea sorry i was pissed at the time and i know it was just like 5 mins. ago but im better now

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how do you know what scales go with what chords?

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