Question about which chords a couple of notes originated fro

[MWR]

I'm never trying to fight him just trying to slowly release the preassure that must be building in his head.

[DJR]

thats clean - i'll allow it

[fatjack]

How could they!?!

get to know 'em....

i dont know how many times i've said this:

D and Bm are the same key

and tenth interval? i dont know what you are learning from, but it sounds like it is overcomplicating things...

Case and point.

I don't know how many times I've said this: D and Bm have the same notes but they are very much their own key. I would expect you to have a better undertanding of such a simple concept. If one is a minor key center and the other is a major key center how are they the SAME key. It seems your undercomplicating things. And yet your the go-to guy when it come's to theory.
And yes it's a tenth interval for the same reason we have 9,11, and 13 chords. You omit the 10th/12th when reffering to chords because it's a redundant note (same as the third/fifth) but when you only have two notes the quality of a 10th can be described. If you called it a major or minor 3rd thats not indicating that the notes are spread out over an octave.
I'm not sure if you knew this or not but guitarists are constantly associated with enormous ego's. I think it would only benefit you if you eased up a bit and got more in touch with the MUSIC. I tell you this because I know your trying to make a career out of it and the ego will only hurt you.


http://insaneguitar.com/col/joel/Joel11 ... e][/quote]

im not trying to flex any theory muscle here, im just trying to warn you against complicating things. yes, you are right in calling it the tenth interval, but its just gonna confuse people who dont know that much about theory.

and i understand exactly what you mean about the minor/major thing, almost every resource i have read agrees with you, but i have chosen to see relatiev major and minor keys as the same thing. when i see two sharps in a key signature, im gonna call it D, not Bm. for purposes of identifying a key, i will always refer to the major key.

i can meet you on the issue of seeing them as different keys for soloing. but even then, it overcomplicates things and makes people think that there are tons of different patterns to memorize.

my crusade is to teach all guitarists that you only have to memorize one pattern for all your soloing needs

[MWR]

Fair enough.
My intention wasn't to confuse people, in fact I didn't have any intentions it was more of a tangent.
I see exactly where you coming from as far a having to memorize as little as possible. It avoids a lot of confusion. The only thing that worries me about that approach is that newbies won't understand the concept of a key center. I think where we disagree is you want to simplify it for the begginers but I want to make sure they have a basic understading of it all before they start taking short cuts. It's more to remember but I think in the long run it will cut down the confussion, particularly when getting into modes and more complex concepts. You know what I mean?

[fatjack]

Fair enough.
My intention wasn't to confuse people, in fact I didn't have any intentions it was more of a tangent.
I see exactly where you coming from as far a having to memorize as little as possible. It avoids a lot of confusion. The only thing that worries me about that approach is that newbies won't understand the concept of a key center. I think where we disagree is you want to simplify it for the begginers but I want to make sure they have a basic understading of it all before they start taking short cuts. It's more to remember but I think in the long run it will cut down the confussion, particularly when getting into modes and more complex concepts. You know what I mean?

yeah, i see what you mean, but from the way i've approached things, modes are included in the way i teach. i would go into depth now, but it would seem like a waste of typing, if you wanna talk more about it, you can AIM me

[ericwormann]

[quote="MWR]I don't know how many times I've said this: D and Bm have the same notes but they are very much their own key.

And yes it's a tenth interval for the same reason we have 9,11, and 13 chords. [/quote]

I guess I'll jump in here too.

I agree with the first part completely. While D and Bm both have 2 sharps, they are EXTREMELY different. To say that you use the same scales for both keys is kind of ignorant and simplifying a little too much. You manipulate the notes in a completely different fashion for each key. Even with soloing. Sure, you can get away with using the same scale for both, but the tonal center is completely different for a song in Bm than a song in D.

The second statement I'm going to have to disagree with. Tenth interval is redundant, while 9th, 11th, and 13th chords are not because they also contain a 7th. Always. Even if the actual seventh note is not contained in the guitar chord, it will fit in the song, as it is implied by the other notes, vocals, bass, etc.

[MWR]

The second statement I'm going to have to disagree with. Tenth interval is redundant, while 9th, 11th, and 13th chords are not because they also contain a 7th. Always. Even if the actual seventh note is not contained in the guitar chord, it will fit in the song, as it is implied by the other notes, vocals, bass, etc.

Maybe you didn't get to the part in my post where I said it's redundant in chords but not intervals. The 10th is redundant in chords because it's just doubling the 3rd scale degree as opposed to actually adding a new note from the scale. It would be annoying to list all the notes contained in each voicing of a given chord so redundent notes are omitted. Not so for an interval cause theres only two notes. I was just trying to answer the question as exact as possible but for a begginer it was t.m.i.

[ericwormann]

The second statement I'm going to have to disagree with. Tenth interval is redundant, while 9th, 11th, and 13th chords are not because they also contain a 7th. Always. Even if the actual seventh note is not contained in the guitar chord, it will fit in the song, as it is implied by the other notes, vocals, bass, etc.

Maybe you didn't get to the part in my post where I said it's redundant in chords but not intervals. The 10th is redundant in chords because it's just doubling the 3rd scale degree as opposed to actually adding a new note from the scale. It would be annoying to list all the notes contained in each voicing of a given chord so redundent notes are omitted. Not so for an interval cause theres only two notes. I was just trying to answer the question as exact as possible but for a begginer it was t.m.i.

yeah sorry i missed the interval part. makes more sense now.

The should put Perfect Strangers back on the air. That show ruled.

[MWR]

eah, i see what you mean, but from the way i've approached things, modes are included in the way i teach. i would go into depth now, but it would seem like a waste of typing, if you wanna talk more about it, you can AIM me

No worries. I trust you know what your doing. You always gave the short answer of "there the same exact scale" and never really explained how you approached it. But now I think were in complete understanding for once.

[MWR]

I'm so happy, now we do the dance of joy!

[myonlybliss]

Ok----this is a good topic. Her'es what I am wondering. I am new also by the way. Why would dave pick these notes (i don't guess they are chords because a chord has to be a first third and fifth or at least three notes or more) over simply playing say...........The Bm or F# barre chord. Why in stay does he play the 8th and 10th fret notes instead of a "fuller" sounding chord. I mean---is there not hundreds of other ways to get that sound on the guitar that would be easier than having to mute notes and such. I know people who play by ear who can play something as soon as they hear it---but for I doubt for instance, if anyone would play just those two notes in Stay by ear---they most likely would play a chord somewhere and it would sound just like it. Or would it---I guess that's what I'm asking.

Another example---- on Dancing Nancies
E:-----------
B:-----------
G:-4------4-- <---4
D:-x------4-- <---3
A:-2------x--
E:-3------2-- <---1on2

Why can't you just play chords here instead of having to mute all these strings to get only three notes? Again--I am new and not saying it's wrong but just wondering the logic behind it. Surely in DN above, those three notes correspond to a chord I assume? If I'm not mistaken, Dave uses many chords minus the fifth. Any help on why he positions notes like these and doesn't play barre chords or whatever would help? And isn't it next to impossible to pick out two or three notes scattered like that when playing by ear---I would think most people would hear a chord?

[MWR]

He doesn't play full chords for two reasons. The first is that he likes to play very percussive and full chords just don't facilitate that slap/chunk that he uses on pretty much every song. The second is that he likes to avoid the typical major/minor sound.
The nancies "chords" are not really chords at all because they don't contain more than 2 different notes. The first is a G major third interval with the third (a string second fret) being duplicated on the G string fourth fret. The second is a f# perfect 4th interval with the root of f# duplicated on the d string fourth fret.
All you really need to know is that the G has a major "quality" to it because of the major 3rd regardless of whether it has the fifth or not. Lastly if the f# was major it wouldnt "fit" because the added Bb doesn't belong in the key of G. A simple way to understand this is to play both chords as major. Doesn't sound to good to me and doesn't establish a key (sorry for the rhyme).
Basically this was the long answer to a simple matter of just lisening to what sounds good. It always helps to understand the theory though.

The answer to your question about Stay is simply: he uses the muted strings for more percussion. On the album version Tim is actually doubling the main riff with chords to get that "fuller" sound your talking about.

[fatjack]

Ok----this is a good topic. Her'es what I am wondering. I am new also by the way. Why would dave pick these notes (i don't guess they are chords because a chord has to be a first third and fifth or at least three notes or more) over simply playing say...........The Bm or F# barre chord. Why in stay does he play the 8th and 10th fret notes instead of a "fuller" sounding chord. I mean---is there not hundreds of other ways to get that sound on the guitar that would be easier than having to mute notes and such. I know people who play by ear who can play something as soon as they hear it---but for I doubt for instance, if anyone would play just those two notes in Stay by ear---they most likely would play a chord somewhere and it would sound just like it. Or would it---I guess that's what I'm asking.

Another example---- on Dancing Nancies
E:-----------
B:-----------
G:-4------4-- <---4
D:-x------4-- <---3
A:-2------x--
E:-3------2-- <---1on2

Why can't you just play chords here instead of having to mute all these strings to get only three notes? Again--I am new and not saying it's wrong but just wondering the logic behind it. Surely in DN above, those three notes correspond to a chord I assume? If I'm not mistaken, Dave uses many chords minus the fifth. Any help on why he positions notes like these and doesn't play barre chords or whatever would help? And isn't it next to impossible to pick out two or three notes scattered like that when playing by ear---I would think most people would hear a chord?

your biggest mistake is thinking that he just strums every string all the time

[trippin6strings]

smoke pot and all the answeres will come

[Coldchillin]

Maybe