Nancies Key

[MWR]

The same note will have a different "feel" in a relative minor/major. You really have to listen to understand this. It all has to do with invervals(distance between the notes) rather than the notes themselves. This is something I'm always trying to work on but I neglect it a lot. It's very, very, very important. I'm sure fatjack can elaborate.

[gravedigger]

they have the exact same notes, just in a different order. so in terms of key, there is no difference

same key signature you mean? yeah. but if song is in Harmonic or melodic minor than that changes the key signature.

[fatjack]

they have the exact same notes, just in a different order. so in terms of key, there is no difference

same key signature you mean? yeah. but if song is in Harmonic or melodic minor than that changes the key signature.

songs in melodic or harmonic minor usually dont have their own key signature, they just use accidentals for this (most songs aren't entirely in a melodic or harmonic minor key). and once you get into melodic and harmonic minor, you might as well throw everything else out that you know about relative majors and minors and just look at the different modes

[fatjack]

The same note will have a different "feel" in a relative minor/major. You really have to listen to understand this. It all has to do with invervals(distance between the notes) rather than the notes themselves. This is something I'm always trying to work on but I neglect it a lot. It's very, very, very important. I'm sure fatjack can elaborate.

yes this comes in the APLLICATION (or actual playing) of the scales. but when referring to KEYS, they are the same thing. the difference comes in which notes you treat at which identities. if you treat the B as the tonic (or first note) it is in Bm, which in turn swaps the identities of the rest of the notes. this is also the principle behind modal thinking

[gravedigger]

yes this comes in the APLLICATION (or actual playing) of the scales. but when referring to KEYS, they are the same thing. the difference comes in which notes you treat at which identities. if you treat the B as the tonic (or first note) it is in Bm, which in turn swaps the identities of the rest of the notes. this is also the principle behind modal thinking

ahh. so the Bm scale can be thought of (or is) a mode of the D major scale? in which they share the same notes start at a different point (different tonic) that makes total sense.



I hope

[fatjack]

yes this comes in the APLLICATION (or actual playing) of the scales. but when referring to KEYS, they are the same thing. the difference comes in which notes you treat at which identities. if you treat the B as the tonic (or first note) it is in Bm, which in turn swaps the identities of the rest of the notes. this is also the principle behind modal thinking

ahh. so the Bm scale can be thought of (or is) a mode of the D major scale? in which they share the same notes start at a different point (different tonic) that makes total sense.



I hope

you are correct. Bm can also be called B Aeolian, the 6th mode of D major

[gravedigger]

ahh, so then it has a mode for each note in the scale? for E, F#, G, A, B, C# too? is there a name for each of these modes too?

[MWR]

yes this comes in the APLLICATION (or actual playing) of the scales. but when referring to KEYS, they are the same thing. the difference comes in which notes you treat at which identities. if you treat the B as the tonic (or first note) it is in Bm, which in turn swaps the identities of the rest of the notes. this is also the principle behind modal thinking

ahh. so the Bm scale can be thought of (or is) a mode of the D major scale? in which they share the same notes start at a different point (different tonic) that makes total sense.



I hope

Excellent! Nice job coming to your own conclusion. As FJ said the minor scale is the same as the Aeolian mode. Thats one of the confusing things about theory, theres multiple terms for basically the same thing.

[MWR]

ahh, so then it has a mode for each note in the scale? for E, F#, G, A, B, C# too? is there a name for each of these modes too?

Yes indeed. For a C Major scale it would be as follows: C Ionian - D Dorian- E Phrygian - F Lydian - G Mixolydian - A Aeolian and B Locrian. Notice A aeolian. Relative minor of C is Aminor. Pretty cool huh?

[fatjack]

ahh, so then it has a mode for each note in the scale? for E, F#, G, A, B, C# too? is there a name for each of these modes too?

Yes indeed. For a C Major scale it would be as follows: C Ionian - D Dorian- E Phrygian - F Lydian - G Mixolydian - A Aeolian and B Locrian. Notice A aeolian. Relative minor of C is Aminor. Pretty cool huh?

I'm glad im not the only one.

I'll be real impressed if you can list the modes of the harmonic or melodic minor scales.

[MWR]

I cheated though I know the theory behind modes but I don't know the scale patterns nor have I tried to apply them. I have no clue what the modes would be for the harmonic/melodic scales. Would it just start from the Aeolian mode instead of the Ionian?

[fatjack]

I cheated though I know the theory behind modes but I don't know the scale patterns nor have I tried to apply them. I have no clue what the modes would be for the harmonic/melodic scales. Would it just start from the Aeolian mode instead of the Ionian?

no, they have completely different names.

you really have to discard the patterns you see in the major scale when you deal with the harmonic and melodic minor scales. the reason this is true is because those two scales dont match up with any major scales. because of this, they have their own set of modes that are completely different from the major scale modes. but the principle that the modes use the same notes just in a different order is still true with harmonic and melodic minor

[MWR]

So what would the mode names be for harmonic minor.

[fatjack]

So what would the mode names be for harmonic minor.

harmonic:

Harmonic Minor
Locrian (natural 6) <<< there is no character for natural
Ionian Augmented
Overtone Minor (or Dorian #4)
Phrygian Major
Lydian #2
Altered Dominant (full-dim)

melodic:
Melodic Minor (Jazz Minor)
Phrygian (natural 6) or Dorian b2
Lydian Augmented
Overtone (or Lydian Dominant)
Aeolian Major
Locrian (natural 2)
Super Locrian


as you can see they use similar names, but they have a whole bunch of alterations that make them nothing like the major scale modes

[MWR]

So what would the mode names be for harmonic minor.

harmonic:

Harmonic Minor
Locrian (natural 6) <<< there is no character for natural
Ionian Augmented
Overtone Minor (or Dorian #4)
Phrygian Major
Lydian #2
Altered Dominant (full-dim)

melodic:
Melodic Minor (Jazz Minor)
Phrygian (natural 6) or Dorian b2
Lydian Augmented
Overtone (or Lydian Dominant)
Aeolian Major
Locrian (natural 2)
Super Locrian


as you can see they use similar names, but they have a whole bunch of alterations that make them nothing like the major scale modes

Wow I have my work cut out for me. I think I'll stick to learning the basic modes first. Do you have all these patterns memorized? That would be quite impressive.
Oh and don't mess with SUPER LOCRIAN!!! It's far superior to all other Locrians.