crash

byahplayer · Unread post by **byahplayer** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:19 pm

what key is crash in?

johntherevelator · Unread post by **johntherevelator** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:47 pm

c sharp / d flat

ticohans · Unread post by **ticohans** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:48 pm

Sorry, but not quite, johnnyboy. It's in E major.

johntherevelator · Unread post by **johntherevelator** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:50 pm

ticohans wrote:Sorry, but not quite, johnnyboy. It's in E major.

where the hell do you get e major

ticohans · Unread post by **ticohans** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:56 pm

If it were in C#minor, you'd hear the presence of the dominant of that key, G# Major. But you don't. Not once in the song is that the key that is in play. While the song does start out on C#m, that does not mean that that is necessarily the key of the song. C#m is the relative minor of EMajor, and thus it is hardly surprising that you hear it alot in Crash. If it were in C#minor, you'd need to hear a Bx going up to a C#, but it never happens. As there's no leading tone or dominant for C#minor, one must then conclude that the key is something else. If you think about E major, all the main chords are there (IV, V, VI), there are clear dominants and leading tones, and the scale used for the melody is definitely E major. I know this is a lot of theory crap, but this is why...

gravedigger · Unread post by **gravedigger** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:44 am

yea its in E. no argument from me on this one, tico. this one is much more obvious than jimi thing

gravedigger · Unread post by **gravedigger** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:47 am

ticohans wrote:If it were in C#minor, you'd hear the presence of the dominant of that key, G# Major. But you don't. Not once in the song is that the key that is in play. While the song does start out on C#m, that does not mean that that is necessarily the key of the song. C#m is the relative minor of EMajor, and thus it is hardly surprising that you hear it alot in Crash. If it were in C#minor, you'd need to hear a Bx going up to a C#, but it never happens. As there's no leading tone or dominant for C#minor, one must then conclude that the key is something else. If you think about E major, all the main chords are there (IV, V, VI), there are clear dominants and leading tones, and the scale used for the melody is definitely E major. I know this is a lot of theory crap, but this is why...

yeah, my music prof. (I took a theory class as an elective) always said that the dominant defined the key.

ericwormann · Unread post by **ericwormann** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:02 pm

firedancer86 · Unread post by **firedancer86** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:10 pm

Well although I have never taken a lesson and know nothing of theory, I do know some real odd-ball weird stuff...for example,

the first chord in Crash branches off of E...since E occurs the most and makes itself the best known of the chording, I knew that it was E...

go figure...I don't know alot of the "big words" used, but I know some real weird stuff...well, I just read this thread, and felt the urge to post...sorry if nobody cares...

gravedigger · Unread post by **gravedigger** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:16 pm

hey fire, I hear ya. I have more of a feeling for the theory than an understanding. I can feel what chord the song is striving for or where it wants to be. its easy to notice in Crash that its E. but say a song like Song That Jane Likes. The song is in G, but its sort of a mixture of keys. Tico may think that its not in G and I'm curious to know what he thinks. HEY TICO ARE YOU OUT THERE????!!!!! what's with fuckin STJL???? what key is it in?????

so what kind of oddball stuff do you know, fire I mean, you don't know theory yet you play all kinds a shit, how do you "figure out a song" or "feel a song out" ?

ticohans · Unread post by **ticohans** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:25 pm

grave, never really thought about that one. i'll listen to it tonight when i get home from work and let you know.

and just to be more specific about the theory, it is the dominant and the leading tone that define a key.

firedancer86 · Unread post by **firedancer86** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:27 pm

hehe...i guess feel and alot of "oddball" understanding...like, its hard to explain what I know, and what I don't...

for instance, I may have missed something real basic (in the sense of theory)...ie, i know what a triad is, but i can't tell you what all makes them up by head knowledge, I could tell you if you gave me a few sec. with a guitar though ( I would look at the notes in the chord, and see if I could find out what exactly those primary notes were)... ... ...its REAL hard to explain...when it comes to chords, and even most every note (on the fly that is) I can tell you what I am playing, yet i can't read sheet music for crap...

its just way to hard to explain... :cry:

ticohans · Unread post by **ticohans** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:28 pm

our brains are wired for music, and if you've been doing music for a while, you just naturally pick up on this stuff. it's all about having a good ear, so i know what you're talking about fire.

firedancer86 · Unread post by **firedancer86** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:33 pm

ticohans wrote:our brains are wired for music, and if you've been doing music for a while, you just naturally pick up on this stuff. it's all about having a good ear, so i know what you're talking about fire.

Well, I would love to get some theory behind me at some point, but I think what screwwed me up, Tico, was that I learned by ear (although I would have it no other way)... I actually tried lessons for reading sheet music...I lasted about 3 weeks! I could not bring myself to read "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" when I wanted to jam out Tim or Dave, or Steve Howe...

...maybe some day I will pick it up... :wink:

gravedigger · Unread post by **gravedigger** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:35 pm

listen to it Tico, its only short but its a busy little thing.

yeah I understand ya fire, if you took the time and sat down and memorized what 3 notes made up every triad, and memorized what chords made up each key, and shit that's very useful but I think you learned it in a more hands on way, like you know where the notes/chords are that you need on the guitar but prolly on the fly don't know what the notes or chords are and why they are "theoretically correct" I have a basic understanding of theory, enough to get by, ya know. when it gets up to 9th chords and 11th, 13th chords I get shaky though. and I can't really play lead, I don't know many scales or anything. I know one scale that I fool around with.

It's all good. knowing a bunch of theory sometimes is a blessing and a curse at the same time. ya get me? I want to learn more theory but I won't to be free minded, open minded when I write and stuff and not restrict myself to what's theoretically valid.

ya get me?

peace,
Ken

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